I'm considering buying a set of Dart LT1 heads for my son's 96 Vette and am wondering if anyone is running them or has any feed-back (flow numbers, dyno results, etc).

I'd really appreciate any info you may have.

Thanks,

Jake

West Point ROCKS!
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No help. I got the 215's but no data yet. Should know someting soon, so if no one else as input, I'll let you know when I get the results.

 

A few people have gotten the heads already and have posted results. Search should turn up a few threads. One guy had some nice gains using them out of the box IIRC.

 

Thanks for that tip. I took your advice and found all the info I was looking for. In fact, I just ordered a set from JEGS and they'll be here Friday.

Thanks again.

Jake

 

As cast the 180cc ones work as well as MILDLY ported b-body iron heads. In other words boltiong them on unported is not going to be worth your time and effort unless they are a repair.

This is not the 70s or 80s, the stock LT1 heads are pretty good and once ported are more than enough for the vast majority of builds. Done 9s NA in a 3400lbs car, 10.0s on the stock pcm(7-7200rpm limit) in the same car even.

 

GM High Performance Tech mag has a build-up on their site using Dart's 180s. It's was a 355 with a relatively mild XFI cam; I believe it's 224/230.

When they cc'd the heads out of the box, they measured close to 190 ccs. I later found, on another site, they measured 189.8cc.

Anyway, the GMHPT engine made well over 400HP with out-of-the-box Darts, which is as much I my son would need right now for his DD Vette.

So, going from the 212 cfm stock heads he now has to heads that flow between 265-275 (independent flow results I found on the web, not Dart's) is enough.

My thinking is that porting the Dart's to flow even more, considering how they'll be used, would be over-kill.

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

 

Porting your stock heads would be plently for what your describing. Since you dont want overkill, dont buy the Dart's. The only thing your going to gain with the Dart heads is the name and a lighter wallet. Most guys with Darts who can give you feedback and theirs sent out and fine tuned. So off the shelf results might be hard to come by.

Call up Lloyd Elliot, AI, TEA, PortPros, etc and get your stockers ported to flow 265-275cfm.

-Dustin-

 

I've been trying to explain this, but guess I haven't done a good enough job.

First, my son's car is a daily driver, so we can't deal with te down time to pull the heads, then send them off to be ported AND pay through the nose for the porting work and upgrading the valve springs, and associated parts.

Second, I've seen the flow numbers from at least three sites on those out of the box heads -NOT including Dart's numbers. The numbers far exceed the 212 cfm flow rating the stock LT1s have.

My son only wants 400HP give or take a few, so maxing out isn't part of the plan. I've found dyno results for a LT1 of his size that far exceed what he's looking for.

Following the advice of another Z28 Forum member, I did a search here and found many posts on Dart's Pro 1 offerings. There were many glowing reports on them. Not only on this Forum, but others as well give similar accounts.

AFR 180 Eliminators are just plain too expensive and I can't justify the cost for the few CFM they reportedly offer. Not only that, but recently two issues have arisen with those heads: Oil return and valve cover fitment.

Right now there's an ongoing thread on the Corvette Forum, complete with photos of the oil return issue. How one member had to grind he** out of his block to created an oil return opening. This is something I wouldn't do with an assembled engine.

TrickFlow's chambers are too big; so we'd lose CR. For every point change in CR power changes by 3-4%. Those are designed for force feed applications.

So, keep in mine what my plan is. I've tried doing my homework on this move and I believe I've covered all the bases.

As I wrote before, GM High Performance Tech magazine built a 355 and used a pair of out of the box Dart 180s. They were flowed first and the numbers were posted in the article. They then bolted them on and stuck in a rather mild XFI cam. On the dyno, the resulting power far exceeded our goal. The complete article is posted on their website.

Thanks for then feed-back.

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

 

The thing is, ported stocker can deliver over 400rwhp on a stock shortblock, the Darts will not even compare to ported stockers.

You are buying things based on a LONG outdated notion that stock is bad and you "need" aftermarket. Like I said, it is not the 70s or 80s.

Hell the Edelbrock heads,cam, intake package makes less RWHP than a LOT of heads and cam cars make at the tires.

All a matter of perspective too on the magazine articles, yeah 400hp sounds good if you fail to understand that is flywheel and fail to understand that is getting to be common rear wheel with "lesser" parts.

 

Check out these sites. Call the companies and speak with them so you can actually cover all your bases. You can pay the core charge, get heads sent to you, put them on the same day, send yours back and get your core charge back. Down time resolved.

A pair of ported stockers are going to be at the very least par with Darts and both will cost you about the same as ONE assembled Dart cylinder head. Not to mention have quality valvesprings. Pay through the nose resolved. $1800 vs $900.

Does he have a cam in the car, or going to? Talk to these head porters about heads and cam packages. That could put you in the 475-550hp at the flywheel. Hell a cam only kit would put you at your goal and you'd never have the heads off the car plus you'd have money to spare.

Lloyd Elliot - http://www.elliottsportworks.com/lt1.html
Advanced Induction - http://www.advancedinduction.com/
Total Engine Airflow - http://www.totalengineairflow.com/

In my opinion throw a Hotcam kit in there and get around 400hp without yanking the heads. Get a little lope too. Comes with springs, rockers, camshaft, etc. Hell a Hotcam kit and some mild heads would keep you under budget, you'd still have driveability, and have much more power than with Darts alone.

-Dustin-

 

Fellas, PLEASE.

Remember what my goal is. I'm not shooting for the kinds of power being recommended in some responses.

I'm want a two day turn-around; out with the engine and clean the bay on day one; swap the parts, degree the cam and re-install on day two.

No time for waiting for a porter to work his magic. Besides, I'm not sure how much meat is actually available in the late LT1s. In fact AI won't even accept the ones on my son's car; wrong casting number.

Let me give you a little background on me so you'll better understand I know which end of the screw-driver goes on the screw.

I'm 64 years old and have been screwing on these suckas since I was in my 20s. I use to build 8 second, one carb quarter mile engines (no forced feeding stuff) for several teams in the Chicago area when I lived there.

I use to drive a mid 8 second, 176 MPH roadster, so I've been quick and fast. Now, to put this in context, this was over 15 years ago - think what one carb cars were running back then. This was back when US30 was in it's hay-day.

I know what it feels like when the U-joint on the drive shaft breaks after pulling 2nd gear at 8200 and the shaft then bounces off the track right back into the crack of my a**!

Some of the teams and I travelled from the east coast - Darlington to the west coast, California to compete. All the guys had duellies and two car enclosed trailers; they were 'bucks-up' and I was their wrench.

Over the years I've learned to seek the advice on only a few companies; companies that have spent millions of $$ to equip their shop with the "right" machinery. Reher and Morrison does my machine work and CompCams' guys are my valvetrain gurus.

So, please, remember: I don't want parts breaking power (trans, rear end), rumpty-rump idle; vibration to loosen my fillings; a dog down low; emissions concerns. I know how to build big power if that was what I was after.

It's what I - and yes my son too, because we've discussed this at length -want. 60 ft and quarter mile times and MPH through the traps have no meaning in this build.

The only, only reason I built my 388 was to shut up my nephew who had a 07 GTO and thought he was all-that. After mauling him, I was through with it. My car's never been on the track or on the dyno and probably never will.

So, although I really appreciate all the feed-back I've been getting, it seems that occasionally there's a loss of focus.

Simply put, I'm seeking info on Dart's Pro1 heads for the LT1 from anyone running them and/or any sites that show engine build-ups using them and/or flow numbers.

Not intending to offend, just trying to explain what it is I'm after.

Thanks to all,

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

 

The problem is that you have more knowledge and experience than most on here. You can't hardly get a question answered anymore without someone preaching about how you're wrong and should do it their way. That's why I post threads as little as possible anymore. Search as much as possible for anything you want to learn about. I understand where you're coming from and it sounds like a logical choice. Please keep us posted of how well the heads do when you get it done.

 

i say get the darts...i understand the downtime aspect and such...

you could always throw the darts on there and then send your stock heads off to get ported for a bigger HP goal later on down the road.

 

Only thing I would suggest would be to get the 200cc heads. I probably missed it, but does your sons Vette have a cam or bolt ons? The 200cc might be too big if it's completely stock.

 

After reading the OP statements, get the heads and if you wish, sell the originals or have them built....