Flow#’s, Blow #’s, Dyno#’s who really cares what they are? When you get beat at the track or on the street do you come back with, “oh yeah, well my heads flow XXXcfm!?” I've never had to pedal a dyno sheet through the top of 3rd on 315 DR's to keep from slamming into the pill.

While the data enthusiasts will always want to bench race numbers that aren't indicative of what actually matters, we’d prefer to stick with consistent results backed up with commensurate real world performance. A few know we’ve been producing quite a bit of CNC ported offerings lately, and we’re always hearing the same questions on our 190cc LT1 CNC offering… “I heard that wasn’t a big enough head… I heard I need ____ CFM, I heard…”

Just to get some numbers, we bolted our as machined CNC StreetPro solid roller head package on Rick Abare’s 383 A4 TA with zero tweaks. They are exactly as our customers receive them. At 3400lbs race wt the car ran a shake down pass of 10.32 @ 130mph NA with a DA of over 2000ft. Our “Basic Port” LT1 intake was mated with just a 52mmTB. Cam is a moderate .625/.600 lift, and we’re shifting at 6500-6800rpm. Many internet "gurus" claim this particular head is “too small” and “doesn’t flow enough,” but it did manage to outrun the 3XXcfm set of heads that were on the car to begin with... Maybe flowbench & dyno racing are little more than a marketing tool shops know the public will just eat up, regardless of the best interests of the customer. Maybe not, who knows

Keep in mind, this car hasn’t even been strapped down and tuned.



What we’d like to know is, what is currently the quickest/fastest LT1 out there? To us that implies GM intake manifold and LT1 cylinder head castings with no epoxy/welding, so please no setups that deviate from that. We're not looking to compare and contrast, just for a little friendly competition & perhaps a goal


We’ll post updates once the car's actually tuned, but in short our goal is 9’s & another national championship.

Stay tuned


-Ai

 

Thats awesome, love how the LT1 can still compete with newer technology.

 

Ed Wright has been 10.20's@3350 lbs with LT4 heads and intake with a A4 tranny, he is the quickest I know of with that combo of parts.

I do see I need to ask some questions though, the previous heads flowed over 300CFM on who's bench? Yours? What kind of head was it? Did you change the entire engine combination when your heads/cam package was "bolted on" (i.e. deck height, quench, maybe he had the wrong cam in the car previously) What did your 190 head flow? Was his 300 CFM head combination optimized?

You said no tweaks, you ran a stock program or was his CRAP 3XX CFM head program "dead on" for your "bolt on" head cam package?


You say head flow numbers are a bunch a BS to bench race with and that it is nothing more than a marketing tool.....sounds to me like you just plugged your heads pretty good telling everyone that the STANDARD everyone uses is Crap....tell you what I will use the age old standard, too many variables in your advertisement I don't know about.


I am not trying to be uppity, but there are alot of younger guys that save along time to get their money together to buy parts, it is much safer to go with knowns than a shot in the dark combo as this one that runs this good. It most likely will not happen when you "bolt it on"...go with the knowns....port the heads, get em flowed, call a cam company, get a custom grind, buy all the supporting bolt ons. The chances are much greater at making a quicker car.




David

 

FatBoy:

FatBoy you are entirely missing the point of the post - what the car has ran with a head that was designed chasing flow numbers @ 28" to our lt1 head designed with other more important aspects of airflow targeted.

For claritys sake, the car was tuned and setup well prior to the swap. However, the car has not been tuned for the topend swap & we do not expect to see much difference on the dyno when it is. Again, we're simply posting results obtained with a product we offer. I hope to have time slips and vids on the site in the next day or two.


Back to flow#'s again....its the quality of the air flow not the raw #'s that wins so where and who flowed is not important. The same cam & engine combination was run. Our 190cc head flowed 10.32@130.712

Stock PCM with tuning for his previous head

That is our opinion and many of those that are professionals in the performance industry and I am glad to see that you think our plug did its job...duh...we are a business and this is a forum to advertise as well as inform. Data from flowbenches & dynos is a tool used to reach the end result, not, the end the result for those that want to run well or win.

God forbid the customer buys a head pkg that just runs good rather than flows/dynos well...We never implied that our product alone was a ticket to a 10sec ride and most on the board have enough common sense to know that any time you run this well all the supporting mods are in place. However, our work is not "a shot in the dark" and we have the results to back that up.

FatBoy; give me a call perhaps we can make a convert of you as well as get you to your performance goals.

Ron/Phil

 

quote:

FatBoy; give me a call perhaps we can make a convert of you as well as get you to your performance goals.

Ron/Phil

I got a few ideas of my own thanks, do search around here there are some pics of what my Dad and I are up to.


David

 

You know what Confucius said about "Man who keep hand in pocket"?

You guys feeling a little cocky?

Hey Phil/Ron, I think everyone here knows that a big port will flow big cfm and may not make any power. If you have even the slightest inkling of understanding in regards to cylinder head porting it's not difficult grasping this concept. Port shape and consistency are where it's at but hey... I've been preaching that since I started here.

Either way... I believe there's been a shift here in the last year or so with people looking at the results more than the "flow numbers" & that's always a good thing.

I understand the frustration (cause that's what alot of this sounds like to me) but we (the guys who don't do heads for a living) can draw some basic conclusions on our own. For every example of a 250cfm head making 2.2-2.4hp per ci you show me, I'll show you 10 that didn't come close (not with a street cam). I prefer imperical data to theory anyways.

As far as the "small head" fast car thing goes... you guys should enter the PRO Cheap Street race series. There you'll find a whole slew of guys running in the 9's on 10.5" tires and with 180-190 cc heads. Guys have been doing it for years but if we get too far on that subject we'll have to shift our discussion from what you Don't like.... "Flow numbers"..... to the current discussion "a 10.3 car with 190cc heads" to the one I like...... "The total package".

My hat goes off to you guys... the chassis and suspension are well setup on this example. Must be cutting some nice short times.

-Mindgame

 

Sorry, missed this tid bit last time.....

9's are a good goal, good luck with that.

I'm curious about the car though. Did you guys build the engine for this one or just the cylinder heads? Are you setting up the suspension & tweaking the car? What exactly does AI's involvement with this car entail??

WRT, National Championships... what NC are we talking about? I'm thinking this information would be somewhere on your website but had no luck finding it.

Tony Bischoff has a pretty extensive list on his site and I think it'd be nice for everyone to follow their web-format. Since we're talking "results" and all. Definitely won't hurt business.

http://www.besracing.com/fast.html

-Mindgame

 

Pretty impressive numbers.

Approx duration of the cam?

 

So is this a 9 second LT1 you could drive on the street or is it strictly for drag racing?

 

What did the car run with the previous heads? You didnt post any gains.

 

That's what I like to see coming from you guys! Congrats to the car owner/driver too.



First the PTK LT1 goes 150+mph with Ai ported LT1 castings and now an all motor LT1 car goes 130mph. That is some impressive stuff.

I guess you get what you pay for, great customer service and great results.

 

Hey guy it's all a departmental secret.If they told there would be mass disappearances all across the country.
We would like to know the details-- what did the car run with original heads,what was the pick up,@130 sounds like a ways to go for the nines(9.98 may not be that far),how was the car tuned before your heads,any other changes-like gear-tires-converter- weight- rocker's-etc.
Those 190's heads can be made to flow BIG number's and if the old heads had big valves to get their flow-- there ya have it.
A guy down here who had a set of stock castings the 3XX head's ran in the 10.30 with more to come and wrecked it.Most people including my self wouldn't spend that kind of money for those style head's (stock castings) What will yours cost?

Still sound pretty good.When is the SONIC boom expected.

 

Stock eliminator LT1's run mid 10's with stock heads, intake and a stock lift cam and a stock throttlebody, But I dont know the weight. I know the whole idea is to get the most air through the smallest hole, alot of things work to do this NOT just a cylinder head or cam or a combination of the two. Thats where I feel this is slightly misleading to the younger guys on the board.


I do applaud Ai. The car is moving. But for the more technical minded guys here we need some more info.


Ed wright has tweaked his combo to death, it is an older combo and I dont know all the particulars on it, but it is fast. But I would think it is similar to yours Phil.


My Dad and hope to run mid high 10's on motor at 3600 lbs with all street equipment intact on a radial......if it even runs 10's at that weight I will be happy. We have a pretty strong(read expensive) combo that has yet to be tested...but it's coming. We will see.

Be intersting to see if you can duplicate those numbers on a different day on a different track.

I am curious, don't knock me for it.


David

 

Few people run low 10s with an AFR headed LT1 car. Fewer run low 10s with an LT4 headed car.

An LT1 head/intake car that runs low 10s at 130 deserves credit even if it isn't something YOU did.

JMO

 

Whenever I used to ask "what does it run" I normally got replies to the effect of ET and MPH are functions of the car's complete setup. Dyno #s are the only true way of standardizing and comparing power output.

I think Steve Quinn probably has the fastest known LT1 headed setup. I'm not sure what he was running before he went to his LTx intake.

130mph on an LT1 head? Good job.
Ryan