auslandt

Today when I was stopped at a light with the clutch pedal pushed in, I felt the pedal pop. I let the pedal out and now it was VERY soft. I then tried to put it in gear and had a hard time. No grinding, just had to keep clutching on the soft clutch and push the shifter. It finally did go in. Now when I let out the clutch, the point of engaging was about 1/4 inch from the floor. Normally the engage point is rather high in the pedal travel.

I drove it around a bit, the gears are hard to get into, but doable. Never grinds. The pedal has gotten a little stiffer and the engage point is now 1/2 to 1 inch out.

Also the clutch never slips when it is engaged.

I checked the clutch fluid (it was ok). Could this be a master or slave issue. Could it be a clutch issue? Or does the M6's hydralic clutch auto adjust and this is normal?

All_Z_Way

It is definitely not normal, but it hard to tell what your problem is.

It could be the slave cylinder, but it more likely the clutch or pressure plate. Dunno for sure though.

97Z-M6

this may sound strange but something very very similar happen to me. i broke a spring in the clutch and a piece got hung in the presure plate and the pedal got soft and hard to shift into first. and the release point was right off the floor and the cluthc held good.

i said all that to say when a piece of a spring gets hung on one side in the pp the hyrdalic system doesnt need alot to disengage it becuse half of the force is being held close and the clutch is still partly engauged. making kinda hard to engauge 1st gear. and that makes the hydralic system feel weak.

so bet you have a broke clutch. i know it sounds strange but the same thing happen to me and i finaly pulled the tranny and thats what i found replaced the clutch. put it all back together and all is good.

if you have any questions about my explanation i post back tonight. sorry so breif but im leaving work.

oh go out in the driveway and put your car in nuetral and let out on the clutch and then push it in and listen for the input shaft to stop spinning if it doesnt try to put it in gear with the clutch pushed in and see how much force it takes to stop the input shat form turning. and if it takes alot of force to stop the input shaft with the clutch pushed in, i bet you have a broke clutch and a spring hung in the pp.

i check the post agian tonight. good luck.

auslandt

Wow, thanks alot 97Z-M6. I will check it out tonight. I was hoping for a better answer, but glad to have a clear possiblity (even if the news isn't that good).

97Z-M6

well if you have looked what is vertict.

if i didnt get you any closer to you fix just tell me if you find anything new and ill try to help, but i learned a lonfg time ago that the search works good on this board.

but let me what you find.

auslandt

On the nose with the diagnosis.

I just tried what you recommended. It was a little hard to listen carefully with the SLP LM though .

In neutral, engaging/disengaging the clutch made no difference in the rotation of the input shaft. Trying to engage the gear does slow the input shaft down, although getting it in gear was HARD. If I stopped applying pressure to the gear shift, the input shaft would start spinning again (the clutch was pressed down the entire time). Seems like the clutch has failed exactly like you said.

Thank you so much for the help!!!

97Z-M6

sorry i had to be right. i was hoping you would find something else wrong and i would be alot simpler. but now that that said and done let me give you a little advice, if you dont mind.

when you go in with another go in with a solid disc clutch (no damping springs). i have broke seven clutches in my in the past year. the springs cannot take the abuse once you start modding these cars. im running a solid disc bronze and kevlar clutch with a lt4 pp. it ingauges very smoth but will hold all i need and more (but i did have weights added on the pp for more claping force.)

the resason i say solid disc is becuase you dont want to pull the tranny again and agian and agian like i did. the last time i took my tanny out it took my 12 min. and i had the clutch in my hand(had a lift). but do you have any idea how many times ive had the tranny out to be able to do it in 12 min. honestly i lost count. but im just trying to save you the headaches i had.

now far as the clutch goes i no where you get one built with what ever material you wont on it and you get a solid disc clutch, lt4 pp, through out brearing, and pilot bearing. for $373 and they will ship it. the local lt1 performace shop will only install there clutch. unless you bring them a different one,they want order you any thing diff. there are a few people running 10s with there solid disc clutches. i dont make any money off the sell but the people know what they are doing and do good work.

its the cheapest and best quality ive found. and thats speaking from the use of 8 clutches.

www.clutch-shop.com there number is on the site and if you call ask for richard. they are in waco tx.

then agian you may want a mecloud street twin, but thats $1000.

all that said GOOD LUCK.

97Z-M6

i forgot to ask you haow do like the LM....... is it loud.

LT1derful

This happened to me, just as you described about three weeks ago. Pulled into gas station, clutch pedal sank to the floor. Car stalled, and wouldn't start in gear, but would start in neutral...wouldn't go into gear.

Bought the Spec Stage 2 and after the install. NO CLUTCH PEDAL still!!! Had to replace Master/Slave unit. Problem solved. Now, I COULD have gotten away with just the Master/Slave unit...but my clutch disc was damn near its last leg...and I LOVE my Spec 2.

I'd say for $125 from Jason Cromer, I'd swap your master/slave unit first!

DJ

LT1derful

Responded before I read all of M6s replies.

Yes, we HOPED that in my case it was something like a spring in the pressure plate, since I was buying a new clutch anyways. Too bad for me that wasn't the case.

Good luck to you!

DJ

97Z-M6

the diference between lt1derful and yours is that yours will go into gear with force but lt1drful said his would not go into gear. ltderful not trying to be a smart butt, but i could have told you that it was probably you master cylinder becuase it would not go into gear at all. but his will go into gear with alittle force. so that means that something is restricting the pp to release but its partly releasing becuase he can get it into gear.

auslandt the difference is that you said your pedal went ot the floor and is now releasing about a inch off the floor and lt1derful just went and would not even start in gear thats means his was holding like its ot releasing at all. yours does relaese a little.

now im not going to say dont change the master cylinder out first, because it is cheaper if you want to start there. but im saying im going to bet that its your clutch. good luck.

hey and post back with what you find.

auslandt

auslandt

Thanks for the clutch recommendation. I have been doing some research and so far come to the conclusion to get a Mcleod performance clutch. With the PP, bearing, and disk it is just over $400. I have heard good things about this one and it is fairly cheap. However, I think it uses springs (not sure).

I will look into the site you mentioned.

I doubt I will ever mod this over 450 horses since it is my daily driver. Not to mention my wife already hates the fact that this thing is so damn powerful already. }.

I can't believe how may times you have removed the tranny. This will be my first. I have done many other repairs on other cars so I'm not too worried. But this car is fairly new to me so I want to do 100% of what work I can. It will make rodding it MUCH easier if I ever decide to do so.

magius231

only thing to worry about with a non sprung clutch is its significantly harder on other tranny/rear end parts (theres no dampening effect anymore). Check the advanced tech forum, people are breaking rear ends and tranny output shafts with the street twin clutch, some seem they aren't making a whole lot more than stock power (course some are lasting through 750HP, its a crap shoot)

Unless you are considering some serious upgrades in the future, I would probably stay with a sprung clutch (will be easier to drive on the street too)

97Z-M6

drivabilty was a concern for me when went with a solid disc clutch, but i assure you there is nothing to woory about it was harder for me to drive the car with springs hung in the pp than to drive with the solid disc clutch. look at it this way you do not have any room hardly at all for coil bind on a sprung clutch. so when they bind you are loosing all the dampning power of the spring so why not get a solid disc. there is NO way its any harder on the rear end when you launch a solid disc than a sprung clutch because those springs are biding.

the 3rd clutch i got had heaver duty springs on it and those broke as well. becaus they bind on the luanch. and i will be willing to bet that out of all the broke rearends most were on sprung clutches. the vettes have solid disc clutches and a dual mass fw and they break rears just like we do.

as far as it being harder on the rear i see how you come to that conclusion but i disagree. when those springs colapse they cuase the center of the clutch to turn and hit a set of pins, i wish you could see the pins and all the damage to them by the force of those springs colampsing.

i had the same clutch material on a sprung clutch and i had A WHOLE LOT MORE CHATTER on the sprung than i do now with a solid.

and the springs in the clutch are not really for drivability as much as clutch wear. its for slowing down the wear of the clutch pads. when the clutch engauges on a sprung clutch the pads of the clutch seat between the fw and pp a spilt second before the springs begin to get pressure and is transfered to the center of the clutch to turn the input shaft. but it all happens in a split second. when your at a red light and you take off you go from 0mph to 5mph you slip the clutch a little and then take off. you dont just dump the clutch because as we know you will stall the car. and thats where the springs come in you dont have to slip the clutch as much on a sprung clutch becuase the springs take up a good bit of the force applied to clutch pack first and then transfer it to input, but on a solid disc clutch any slipage is done with the clutch pads and that adds wear to the clutch. but there is no difference in the solid disc as opposed to the sprung clutch. now for the first couple of days the is. but you get use to it fast.

sorry if i cant explain myself that good but i try.

auslandt

Here is a part way update...

Well things havn't been going well. I have found more problems than I had hoped. So far:
- Heater core plugged
- Water pump bad (weep hole weeping)
- Steam pipe connections leaking pretty bad
- Clutch purchased (Still havn't seen if it is bad)
- Pinon Seal (rear driveshaft) leaking pretty bad
- Clutch Slave Cylinder broken

Anticipating the following work:
- Replace rear main seal (while I'm in there already)
- Replace the clutch even if it isn't dead yet (yup I'm already in there)
- Sparkplugs (looks like a pain)
- Wiring diagnosis (Found the skip shift though... On the tranny)
- Resurface the flywheel (pray that I don't have to buy a new one)
- Balance the drive shaft (80Mph vibration)
- Replace differential fluid
- Inspect the brakes (with my luck, they'll need replacing too)
-

And to top it off:
- The dog just puked all over the stairs
- Grandfather just passed away
- Wife cancled her cruise due to the grandfather dieing
- Feeling lonely now... Can't use the Z to feel any better (she's on blocks with no drivetrain )

Well back to the subject at hand. Prior to investigating the clutch, it looks like the soft pedal/clutch problem is due to a broken slave cylinder. The slave is NOT leaking so the Hydrolics are intact. The problem is that when the master is pushing the slave, the slave mounting is broken and allowing the slave housing to push backward some instead of the enitre force pushing the fork forward. Oh well... I wanted a performance clutch anyway.