Read the paragragh above, a couple of times carefully, and understand flowbench work (and figures obtained) is just a tool, and not #s to end all #s. Also understand, on paper, the magical special degree heads will augment the flow of one valve, and diminish the other, in an inline valve head. It is the complete, in engine operating mode, package that matters most.

If you've got 11 thou to invest in a complete engine, and not just the heads, the following advice may be worth considering:

 

$11,000 will put you a little over 1/2 way there.



David

 

I still say that the AFR 215RR or 227 would be the way to go, when ported by a very reputable company and would save you thousands of dollars. However, it appears that you have the money to spend, so...


Mike

 

11,000 still not enough ? Considering I already have the block too? for me to achieve the power numbers I need isn't a 15 degree head required? To make 550-570 rwhp i need a head that flows 340-350cfm correct? Mindgame: You said you spent around 10,000 on your heads... But that was with mistakes and as you said two sets of titanium valves... if someone sere to attack this project with ample knowledge and do it right the first time, could that 10,000 tag go down a bit??? **** for 10,000 i'll by some aero 32v heads and pay somebody to convert those.

 

As for the Brodix 18degree heads i didn't think they actually finished making one for lt1s. Is this head displayed on their website? is this special order?Has anyone used it yet?

 

For a total engine on a stand ready to put in a car, to make 670+ HP, 11G IMO aint gonna do it. We got $1600 just in the SHORTBLOCK machine work, we are shooting for lower numbers than you are with a 23* head. Cant skimp , or "just get by" when going for those kinda numbers.

For you to make 550 RWHP with a six speed you need 650 flywheel HP, 700 with an auto.


David

 

TransAmTONY,
Get some AFR 227's and have them heavily worked.The more air the more HP.AND no they don't need special valve train,Can run RR's as normal,they sit at an angle to the head like TFS on a Ford.

 

You will have 9-10,000.00 dollars in a good set of 15-18* heads and shaft rocker's at todays prices.If you get them for less and they flow really good you got a hell of a deal.

 

Used 18* stuff is the way to go no doubt, check these guys out

www.musclemotorsports.com

Ebay.com/motors

www.racingjunk.com

David

 

I think some people were a little confused with my "money invested" statement. Let me try and clarify some of this...

The heads have had two sets of titanium valves in them, not due to mistakes, but due to the fact that they were atop a race engine for 6 years. I've had these heads for some time and since I went to a BBC in my Mullis dragster, the SBC stuff was put to other uses.

You can buy the heads used and at any degree of completeness. You can buy bare castings, opt for hand porting and ss valves to keep costs down. All up to you.... there are deals to be found.

Wise man once said, "Give me a lever long enough... and I'll move the world". Same can be said of heads and camshafts. Put a big enough head on a motor with a big cam and it will make power. May not be good enough to win races in competetive classes but it'll make nice dyno numbers. You can do that with a big 23º head too but it's going to take the cam to make the numbers. We're talking 550rwhp and up here. The 23º in my opinion is a loser for the street because it needs too much camshaft to be "streetable".

Guys will do it... no real tricks to that. But, let's see what kind of cam it takes to get there.

-Mindgame

 

And while we're on the subject of building a 550+ rwhp small block..... why not just go gen1?

I read somewhere in this thread where $1600 was spent on machine work (LT1 block). Another $300 with that and you have a WP Motown block and the ability to build 427+ ci. Turn that engine to 6000rpm and you're making 600+hp at the crank. Want more? Just turn more revs.

By this time next year, I'll have an all aluminum 448ci tall-deck small block between the fenders of my Camaro. I would go BBC but I would like to take this thing to the twisty-track some time and learn how to do that thing.

This next engine should make over 600 at the rear wheels with good streetability. So I may have a shortblock and heads for sale here before too long....

-Mindgame

 

MG, $1900 for a block.....does it come machined ready to assemble?



David

 

The Motown comes fully machined... align honed, clearanced for a 3.875 stroke (4" will go with very minor work), even has indexed lifter bores. The bores come .010 under (3.990 or 4.115) to allow for honing. That's a good thing, cause we all like to run different rings and pistons.

It's one heckuva deal when you consider the machine work that goes into building a HP block. Your $1600 isn't so uncommon. I've spent that much and more on race-only blocks so the aftermarket stuff is really a bargain.... not to mention, it's a better block all the way around.

-Mindgame

 

MG,
The $1600.00 is for total machine shop bill,that included balancing and other stuff,not just block machine work.

 

I see.

I don't know the extent of the machine work with your block but my bill was just on the other side of your figure. Of course I did pay for camshaft tunnel correction (bore and hone w/oversize bearings) to establish parallelism with the crank. And I also paid to have the lifter bores corrected (indexed).

All of this stuff is taken care of in the Motown block, so we're basically comparing the cost of a full-out race engine prep OEM block and the Motown. Poor comparison cause the Motown has all of this taken care of at the factory and it's stronger to boot.

When you look at the costs that way, the WP block doesn't look to be that expensive after all.

-Mindgame