Oo, oo!!!! Can we talk about Mass air vs. speed density??!

 

Damn, talk about making a moutain out of a mole hill. Way to have a chip on your shoulder there Formy. If I was referring to you, I'd have made a Canuk comment. No where did I mention that all carb users were idiot hill billies. So get over yourself.

The car to which I was referring was a bolt on only street car. Now tell me how a 650 cfm carb will make a bit of difference over the FI. The guy was an idiot hill billy that was afraid of computer controls. I lived in eastern OK long enough to know an idiot hill billy when I see one.

Ya, carbs can make pretty much the same power, but do lack in efficiency. You have to know how to tune them also, and most people don't. Most over carb their engines. The reason why carbs are used in the faster classes of drags are because of the rules, not because they're better and it isn't like those are anywhere near a production car either.

For the LS1, even going to a carb won't get someone away from computer controls. Something still has to ignite those coils.

I personally got rid of a carbed car for FI because 10 mpg sucked. Now my car is just as quick (if not quicker) and gets at the very worst double the milage.

 

sports like NASCAR and NHRA are still carb'd cause they don't want to deal with the electronics/tech headache that F1 goes thru... Its impossible to manage.. For example, F1 esseintially has traction control, by smart code to maange engine timing and what not..

Now NHRA would be absolutely horrified if effective traction control creeped into the sport like this, for obvious reasons.

Top it off, in these applications, carbs have what, 30-50+ years of experience and use, and lots of R&D put into making max performance... and rules that work with carbs. While FI, in these applications have none, in both rules and active R&D $ and time. This is why carbs still live.. Lots of support and lots of prior research dev and work, all already done. And they are already proven to work.

 

Carb vs. EFI is almost as redundant an argument as LT1 vs. LS1. Both can be made to work great, and to great extremes. Carbs are more time-proven than EFI, although that trend certainly has turned around in the last few years. I choose NOT to make any predictions either way, as I believe that both are very comparible in their power potentials.

Just a quick Q, but my buddy was telling me that this year's Nascar engines are now revving to ~10,800 RPM?? And they're carbureted, right? Not that it can't be done, but I haven't (yet) heard of a fuel injected small-block making power up to ~10,800 RPM?!!

 

F1 uses Fuel Injection way over 10,000 RPM, so I'm sure it can work with if someone would spend the money to research it.. but I bet nobody simply wants to.. since there's also no racing class that it would fit in. and most likely, if your going to be spending that much time, you might not be considering a small block anymore anyways.. Unless of course someone creates a popular racing series that allows 10,000 rpm FI small blocks..


I guess the closests smallblock FI glory case would be the Le Mans Corvettes.. I don't think they buzz higher than 8000ish rpm.. but then again, they had to survive the 24 hour endurance race too..

The power of FI is the on the fly adjusting if you have a computer, programming, and sensors to back it up to make sure the engine is working 100% all the time. Carbs can never have do that.

I'm betting if NASCAR allowed FI, the major teams and manufactures would start researching and switch over to FI.


For the LSx family.. it just seems slightly wierd, that having GM spend all that time and effort to optimize the package with FI, to suddenly toss it out and throw a carb on it..... But in the end fo the day, its whatever you want and whatever works huh?

 

yeah, you know i was just thinking abou that today. everyone gets ported mafs or just ports them and im just thinking that if i lived where smog wasnt an issure id probably just take the maf off completely. but then im sure that there are some tuning issues with it. i wouldnt know, i cant tune my obd II myself.

im surprised this thread grew this quickly...

 

ricers do 9000+rpm with fuel injection all the time, some, like the s2000, in stock trim. Fuel injection's biggest advantage is in its efficiency when cruising. When variable valve timing gets introduced to our engines, we'll have debates about that vs. camshafts. Sura a huge cam will make big power up top, but the variable valve timed motor will give higher duration at higher rpms while maintain excellent driveability at lower rpms. In the end, its what you want from your vehicle and what you're willing to give up - that will decide what technology one wishes to use.

 

hahaha...ah man...this was a funny thread. One person comes out and says..whats up with this and it gets blown way out of proportion!!! Ah man, cryin the hole time. I gotta put my 2 cents in here right quick....

I recently went with a carb set up with a trial and error frame of mind. I've been to More Performance about....6 times and it takes way to long to tune the dam thing. Dont get me wrong they did an awsome job when the car was in what I like to call "stock" trim, simple bolt-ons I guess is everyone else calls it. But now with this new setup, I wanted to see what was going on with a carb conversion. What I did, switched over through on a 750 CFM. The car was tuned and I ran a little bit less at the track. So we went with a 600, I forgot what it was...something like that. After 5 or 6 runs, it was almost identical to me times in FI trim. Some were faster runs in FI and some were slower (I have clutch issues).

NOW....that means that all those hours I spent at More...I cant even explain how many hours. Ever single dam time that ses light came on they had tuning issues. But all those hours at More, and I tuned my motor JUST the same in a matter of an hour. Wrong carb, took it off. Set the idle, adjusted my screws, DONE. Now since I know that I can tune the hell out of the carb like a company More can tune an FI, I will be going to carb on my new motor just because of the simplicty of it all.

There's no Hill Billy bashing or your an idiot, its your setup! Aiight then, let me try to fit this 871 in this car now........

 

I read something in a car magazine that was pretty extensive I forgot which magazine but the general conclusion was that carbed could be tuned to make more max power at a certain rpm range. FI generally made more power over the entire thing but its peak isnt as high. You know what i mean?

 

EFI has been around since the 1950s, I have a 1973 mercedes 4.5 liter with efi and overhead cams, and ya know what, at best on the highway when it was brand new it only got 14mpg, there were carb'd vehicles of that day running bigger engines and getting better fuel mileage, and as for gas prices actually at the time due to the lack of inflation gas was actually worth around 2$ now when you take inflation into account.

 

Show me an electronic fuel injected car that was built in the 50s. I would love to see it. If you are referring to mechanical fuel injection, which I am sure you are, that is quite a bit different than electronic fuel injection.

Every carb vs EFI writeup I have seen has shown that both are capable of around the same peak HP, but the EFI often has more area under the curve, and gets much, much better gas mileage.