would the starter motor still try to spin even if the solenoid was going bad?

or is it wired up so that if no power is going through the solenoid (bad internal connections) than the starter won't spin??

if anyone remembers, the car was partially flooded with salt water during last year's hurrican Wilma. so i'm thinking the starter was partially submerged...it's very possible corrosion has finally gotten the best of it.

i may try to swap in a new starter/solenoid...if that doesn't cure it i'll know it's a power supply problem (and i can always return the new starter).

on a side note....i can hear an audible relay click in the fuse block under the hood. it's coming from the "starter" relay...and i HAVE tried swaping it out.
just a tidbit of info

 

I'm telling you, this problem sucks. It's wierd how similar to your problem Dan's is Jeff. If you do figure this out and it's a problem other than a Hurricane'd starter/noid then let me or him know so we can fix his car too. His car didn't get any water intrusion from any of the 'canes.

When you say "semi-labored" start what do you mean? Sluggish to turn over? Because when Dan's car does this it never is sluggish to start, it just doesn't do anything. You turn the key 20 times, and nothing happens and then the 21st time it fires up strong.

Abe

 

I know you said you battery was good and the cables where good, butI had the labored start thing and then starting in my car. I thought it was the battery and went to change it. I got the negative off ok and moved to the positive, when I tried to remove the bolt the entire terminal snapped off. It didnt even feel lose or move. Did you say you had it hooked up but not installed and it worked? Have you tried using a different battery? Just trying to help.

 

I've seen battery cables go bad in the crimp and cause mystery no start issues. Also a battery can crack an internal conductor and do the same. With issues like this, there is only one thing you can usually do... replace stuff till it goes away. In which case you start with the cheapest, then go up from there, borrowing stuff temporarily whenever possible.

 

If saltwater got into it, you're going to have a ton of electrical gremlins. The best thing to do is to run an entirely new electrical system in it. If you saw what 48 volts at 23 milliamps did to 22-26 awg telephone wires in saltwater, you'd be shocked to see what 12 volts and 10-50 amps can do.

Mike

 

god...more freakin updates...

for ****s and giggles i went out today to try to start the car. got in and it barely turned over on the first time. after that...silence.

hooked up a second battery (not new..not sure of it's condition) using jumper cables and it rolled over barely but no start. tried again and all i could hear was the solenoid clicking (very audible). kept trying to start it..and finally the car rolled over and fired up.

let it run for a minute, removed the 2nd battery. shut the car off and tried to start it with just the one battery....NOTHING.

hooked the battery back up and tried again and it started.

maybe it is the battery after all. i tried doing this process before, even swapping batteries totally, and using the 2nd one as a jumper. and it didnt' help at all.

let the car idle with the 2nd battery disconnected...tried multiple restarts and it fired up fine each time without skipping a beat.

now last nite, after we push started it...i drove it about 6 miles and pulled into the driveway...shut it off and immediately tried to restart it...and it was dead silent...nothing.
seems really strange for a battery problem.

the battery is an Optima Red Top, 2yrs old, although it has been drained (damn fan switch) twice.
gonna throw it on the trickle charger tomorrow...see how it reacts.



as for the flood...it was not flooded bad. the water line showed to be on the bottom of the fan shroud, and the nose was lower than the rear....maybe 4".

there was minimal electrical connections affected. and only about 3" of water in the floor boards...just to the bottom of the back of the driver side window.



i'll keep you updated on the battery recharge issue. [crossing fingers]:blah:

 

you a telecom guy kraest?

 

Maybe so...maybe not

 

Jeff, I'll bet you anything it's your battery a buddy of mine had the red optima battery and had nothing but problems with it.. switched it out for the yellow one, no more problems! I'm still trying to find out about the car show too, if I find out anything I'll let you know

 

sofar it's started ervery time i've tried since yesterday.

i have it sitting on the trickle charger right now...see what happens.

 

Wow!

The problem sounds like what my car just started doing today...

I went to start it earlier and the car wouldn't start.No starter no engine rotation...My brother's 98 TA (he moved temporarily to Colorado) is parked here next to my SS and so far I only have swapped the battery(brand new,in great working condition) for the one in my SS.Nothing.

The car will act as if your not pushing the clutch in and you also will hear a small low volume sound (almost like a grumble if you will) coming from either in/under the dash (driver's side) or somewhere under the cowl area (you can actually feel the vibration sound with your hand placed on the plastic cowl trim as you release the key from trying to start the car...only lasts for a second or two).

Tomorrow if I hopefully have time,I am going to try to start switching other components...Relays,checking fuses,solenoids...Unfortunately my brother's TA is an A4 so I don't have a neutral switch to swap/test.

Definately going to keep tabs on this thread...

 

Having the exact same problem right now. Has been doing it off and on for awhile, but now its silent and hasnt started for 2 days. If anybody has any updates or solutions, please let me know.

 

I just fixed mine!I can save you alot of time and effort but you have to be willing to do things a little "ghetto style"

WARNING!I took my chances with the air bag,do this at YOUR OWN RISK!

I went outside with my multimeter,I was curious as to wether the cylinder was truly at fault or something deeper (BCM module or harness).

I took off the knee panel (be careful,don't rip the wire for the hatch release!!)and the 2nd panel with the two plastic screws..

Now you can see all the wiring coming out of the steering column.

There are two small white wires incased in a orange wire jacket.These are coming off the ignition cylinder as I understand it.They connect via a small electrical plug to to the wires leading off to the BCM.If I remember the wires that go to the BCM are white w/black stripe and like a purple w/white stripe.

I unplugged the connection between the cylinder and the BCM.

I probed the connector from the cylinder with my multimeter.As I understand it,if you insert the key into the ignition and then probe the wires at the end of the connector,you should be getting the same resistance that your key is rated at.i was getting nothing.I tested with two different keys and in all positions.Still nothing.

At this point I figured that its kinda obvious now that the wiring coming from the key cylinder or the cylinder itself is bad.This was a relief to me because that means its nothing deeper such as the BCM module or harness or whatever else is in there...

If you get a signal that matches your keys resistance when testing the plug coming from the cylinder,then your key/cylinder are working and the problem is somewhere else...As far as I understand it.

I was going to do the resistor bypass http://shbox.com/1/4th_gen_tech2.html#pass_key by info from this guy's website but was running into problems trying to find the correct resistor to match my key and cylinder setup.Then it hit me...My new spare key can be the resistor! BTW this is an awesome page by this guy really helpful and also shows you how to find out the resistance of your own key.

I clipped the plug coming from the key cylinder leaving a couple inches of wire attached to the plug connector.I stripped a little of the tips of the white wires that are still attached to the plug connector.

I then placed the wires one on either side of the resistor pellet on my spare key and taped them into place with electrical tape.

I then tested the connector by probing the connector that is now attached to the spare key with tape with the multimeter...

Bingo!The connector was now giving out the correct resistance of the key.

I went and secured the key VERY tightly with electrical tape to the connector.I didn't want to solder it because I didn't want to damage the plastic of the pellet on my new spare key that my dealer charged me $50 for.

I went and connected my new spare key with the taped connector (lets call it my "VATS Security Ignition Control Flux Capacitor Bypass Module" ) under the dash to the connector that leads off to the BCM module.

I taped off the wires originally coming from the cylinder and out the column that I had clipped so that they are no longer exposed.

I then used my original key and fired her up!

I have ran the car several times and there are no longer any problems and the security light is gone...She starts first time every time so far...I hope I don't jinx myself but...

I took some crappy photos with my cell to give a basic idea of what I did...I'll post them later if anyone is interested.

I know it sounds "ghetto" but,it only costs me the price of a new key and for those of you that have a spair key to start with,this fix will be absolutley free...It really is tight and secure,nobody can see it and most of all so far...it works!

Compared to having to pull the steering wheel and buying a new key cylinder set at dealer prices....I think I did OK.

Those of you that don't have multimeter...buy one.

I am REALLY RETARDED when it comes to electronics so,I'm surprised the idea worked!I just tried to read as much as I could.1st time using the meter as well...it had been sitting there for a while! It was good to find out that it was the cylinder before tearing into everything.

Wether you try it or not...it works for now until I get it fixed right...but depending on how much that is,it might just stay there for a good while.

If nothing else,this idea can be a good "emergency" trick to try when in a pinch!VERY BASIC tools needed..screwdriver/plyers to remove panel,electrical tape and something to cut/splice wires...

 

Here are some pics..Poor quality (cell phone camera).

Its the wires from the cylinder that come out under the dash still connected to the plug connector.They are taped to the key one wire on each side of the resistor pellet on the key.After taping it tightly,I tested it before installing to make sure it was putting out the correct resistance with the multimeter.



This is the other end of the connection that leads off to the BCM module...


This is the "Flux Capacitor Key" installed to the BMC connection..


And this is whats left of the wires incased in orange coming from the cylinder..I just taped it off.


Told ya it looks GHETTO but like I said,IT WORKS!

 

Yea I did the resistor bypass thing a few weeks ago. If you want you extra key back, just go to radio shack and buy some resistors(99 cents per pack of 5, took 2 packs to make the total resistance I needed) that add up to the resistance you need and run them in series(connect one end of each resistor together, the other end of one resistor to one side of the harness, other resistor to other side of harness).

Great post btw, great idea using the extra key. It took me about 2 hours to figure out how to add the resistors together to get the right resistance.
Running them parralel(sp?) divides resistance in half, in series will add them for a total.

My problem turned out to be the starter solenoid. Got it running late sunday afternoon. The wire for the hot wire going from the solenoid into the starter was loose. Once I tightened it up, everything was fine. Now it has come loose I guess cause its being a pos again. Guess I need a new starter.