5thGen

don't mind at all, in fact kind of what I was getting at.

teke184

that was assuming all the obvious supporting mods....headers, exhaust etc...

JohnnyPappis

500 RWHP in a DD? I for one think that is alot to be daily driven but to each his own youve gotta rember for the more power you add to the car the less long term driving comfort it takes out of it.....I mean to each his own but ive been in a N/A 550 RWHP LS1 car and let me tell you its deffinatly not somthing you want to drive everyday well IMO. A car needs alot more then a motor think suspension as well nice tires your going to want to keep it on the road like i said this is all just my opion you might like driving a 500rwhp car for a DD i deffinatly dont think i would well not an N/A car anyway maybe you should look to the F/I route seeing as it genrally has better street manners but the one downside F/I isnt cheap just my .02

5thGen

Not to argue, but I do and have built numerous cars, just no LS1s. Some engines respond to some mods better than others, this is why I was asking. If the most restrictive point is heads, heads will be the best mod. If the most restrictive is the cam, then the cam will be the best mod, etc.

I can live with a more aggressive vehicle, in fact that is what I want. I do not want a mercedes. I simply do not like them. I have driven the new GTO and the new Mustang GT, and they are both WAY too soft for my taste. In fact I kind of like the lumpy idle, and would add a vacuum canister if that is what was needed to keep it running.

FPK (for public knowledge) I plan to add a clutch, coilovers, wheels and tires, big brakes (maybe carbon) as well as a serious diet to the vehicle (I work with CF).

500 flywheel hp is plenty for me and would be awesome, I've driven TT v6's with over 550 rwhp, and 650hp single turbo beasts. Both were DD and fairly calm until boost hit, the 650hp was in a t-type that embarassed the hell out of a 750 sport bike rider, with 3 passengers in the car. I also had a 400rwhp mustang 5.0 and it was really close to enough, but that car had other issues such as rust and a carb I couldn't get to act right.

Also, I will not be switching to taller gears to make it even quicker, I like shifting, but not every 1.5 seconds. In fact after the changes if I have to shift too quick, I will be looking for shorter gears.

also remember the Z06, BMW M5, and several other DD vehicles are now available wth 500hp, so having 500 in a DD is not unrealistic. It is just what you are willing to put up with if you mod a car to that point. Think about modding a C6 to 500, that is only a 20% increase in power. As is, modding the C5 to 500 is only a 30% increase in power. Not like some of the guys runnning around with 700 or 1000 or more. Talk about undrivable...... IMO a 350hp vette is undrivable to a 16 year old with little driving experience. Where that 350hp vette would be too tame for some other people.

teke184

turbos as daily drivers are totally different animals than a N/A car.

i guess the problem with this discussion was that we originally assumed (and you semi-eluded to) that you were looking for 500rwhp as a daily driver.

but if 500 at the crank is what youre thinking...hell that's easy and VERY daily driveable.

given even a conservative drivetrain loss...you're only looking at 430-440rwhp to make your goal.

something like the futral F13 cam and some AFR 205 heads will easily make 430rwhp.

if you want something a bit more nasty...step up to the F15 cam and the AFR 225s or the TrickFlow heads and probably be easily pass the 450rwhp

stick a FAST 90/90 on there and you should be about where Kreast was...470rwhp. which means a 550hp car.

when asking something specific like all this, you need to specify rear wheel, crank, and if you say 500hp...don't back down and say "but 400 would almost be enough"

N2O93Z28

My Z06 setup is fairly simple and makes about 500 flywheel hp. All I have is LG pro longtubes, Borla stinger, Blackwing intake, G5X3 cam and a tune. Daily driveable, 26-27 mpg freeway, mid 11 sec. @ 120+ on DR. Ive been thinking about heads, putting a stock LS6 cam back in and a Magnacharger. That would be an easy 550 rwhp, but 1st and 2nd don't hook at all and 3rd only sometimes as it is. It would be fun, but I don't think I need all that in a DD.

darrens99formul

I think the best way is to build a 408 iron block. You can get a 408 shortblock built for about $3700 (give ot take). Then you build it up with a nice heads/cam/intake combo and 500 rwhp NA is achievable with relatively decent street manners.

Plus the stock ls1 is sellable as a longblock. You could get 2K or so on ebay for your ls1 longblock which helps pay for the heads, cam and intake. This is the route I am taking. But I also plan to spray mine as well

Good luck.

5thGen

I had a 400rwhp car and said it would almost be enough. That is closer to 500 crank hp than a stock C5. I was thinking 345 stock hp up to 500. I didn't back down. 500 flywheel hp is 500 hp any way you slice it.

5thGen

That is why I am looking at about 500 rwhp, no use doing it if it does not hook up. At that point you might as well make a 5000 hp car if it does not hook up it's useless.

I am not looking to swap the engine or do a stroker or anything that deep, I would just rather tune what is there.

Plus when I put it on a diet to lose a few pounds, that will help as well. Not saying it is a heavy car, but any car out there can benefit from losing weight. That's why I am offering a CF kit for the Lotus Elise, making a light thing even lighter, lol.

danziger

Centrifugal blowers like Vortechs, Paxtons and ATIs don't deliver their power off idle. Roots and screw-type blowers do and good luck finding that on a F-body with our cowl set-up...

Capn Pete

Good point . Wouldn't a centrifugal blower still have less lag than a turbo though?? And I'm sure their boost is much easier to control?

JakeRobb

Well, as you might guess, it's not nearly that simple. It depends on how much boost you want to make, how high you want to rev, what you're going to do with the car, and a couple zillion other things.

A smaller turbo will have less lag than a similarly-designed larger turbo. However, there have been several advancements in turbo technology in the past few years, and there are some pretty big turbos that spool up very quickly. We've all seen the episode of Horsepower TV where they put the STS turbo kit on a C6 'vette -- from what I could tell, that thing had no lag at all.

The cool thing about a turbocharger is that you can set it up to achieve peak boost at a relatively low RPM, and it can hold that boost level all the way to redline. Let me reiterate that this is only if you set it up right.

With a centrifugal supercharger, you achieve peak boost only at redline. The power comes on stronger and stronger as the revs rise. The boost comes on smoothly, so you don't notice the "lag", but you're still running a low manifold air pressure until you get the revs up.

If my understanding of positive-displacement (Roots and screw-type) superchargers is correct, the engine operates at or near peak boost all the time, even at idle.

Does anyone have a MAP vs. RPM graph for a turbo and both types of supercharged cars? I think that would explain a lot here.

As for controlling boost levels, it's not "easier" with one setup or the other -- just different.

One thing to note: it's difficult with a manual transmission turbo car to maintain boost pressure between shifts. A blowoff valve helps, but it's still an issue. Supercharged cars don't have that problem, and auto-trans turbo cars don't have it either. If I understand the situation correctly, though, powershifting (staying on the throttle while you shift) addresses it nicely.

danziger

A centri-blower won't have "lag", but instead makes the power in proportion to RPMs. There shouldn't be a "hit" as when a turbo gets spooled...just a linear progression of power. Boost is boost and it is actually easier to contol with a turbo as there are more sizes to match engines than there are blower head-units (even allowing for pulley "swaps"). Roots/screw blowers are positive displacement and can go into boost off-idle.

SOMSS

A 420 RWHP LS1 is easily attainable with a set of LT's (Kooks), Dart 225 heads and a mild cam. It will be perfectly streetable, can have a fairly lumpy idle (mine does) as well as great street manners. A good tune and your easily at 410-420 RWHP. That would get you your 500 SAE Net hp on a stock 346 ci bottom end with room to grow.

Ken S

Yup, if I had the cash, it would be a along the lines of a 42x LSx long block with a "mild tune" from a builder dropped in so that you can pratically treat it like a stock factory engine (drive 100k miles without lifting a valve cover)

Cool thing about that setup is you can set it up so when you pop the hood open, most people won't be able to tell there's anything changed.

Plum in a hidden nitrous system and you got a stealth fighter..