i'd say 320 to 330 rwhp with those bolt-ons and with that cam 350 rwhp maybe a tad more with a good tune. I think there are a few peole that have hit 360 rwhp with that cam (I can't remember for sure), but like I say its in the tune. I'd get a bigger cam, since that one isn't much bigger than the stock one Which for your year is something like 190/200 duration 116 LSA and 490 lift-I don't remember the exact numbers, so they might be off + - 10 I'd get something in the 220/220 range or slightly higher with a little more lift as well

 

I was told driveline loss reamins the same. Last I heard it was around 60 hp through a M6. I don't see how the number can keep getting higher either just because you add power. So a 1000 rwhp car loses 150hp through the same drivetrain.I disagree.

As far as power I would guess 360-370 with a good tune and small cam.SO 420-430 flywheel using my theory.

Jay

 

Not to be rude, but how can you agree/disagree about something you don't understand? If you don't understand, that's it- you just simply don't understand.

The more power that goes into a drivetrain the more deflection that occurs on movable parts. When bearings are made to handle more torque this extra deflection introduces more friction with absorbs more power. Although not a purely constant percentage in exact terms, it is best described as such a percentage loss. In no way does it take 60hp in all cases to power a standard transmission.

Hopefully, someone else can put this in better, more easily understood terms.

Ben T.

 

[QUOTE=85_305] Hm.. thats a very good point I'm sure he will still end up with more than 330rwhp because the stock cam in an LS1 is*tiny*


Maybe you missed this post by SSpdDmon.

"I had all of the same mods on my '99 minus the headers. Mine dyno'd at 329.6rwhp and 346.4rwtq. I'd give you another 10-15 tops with the headers."


Looks like 350 to me but still 25 whp shy of your estimate. Not sure where you got the 330 whp idea. All the posts I see saying that are bolt on numbers, as in Pre-cam.

And yes, by today's standards that cam is TINY and the 220-224ish cams are small. Just consider that there are a lot of people driving around with cams that have ~10* more duration and on up around and a little past .6" lifts now.

 

I understand that it's not going to be 60hp everytime but it's not going to 15% either.NOBODY really knows how much you lose through the drivleine with a given amount of power unless they pull the engine and test both ways. So guessing crank horsepower is just to try to brag about higher numbers that don't mean ****.

And yes I can disagree, it's called an opinion.

Jay

 

Well, you alone disagree with the entire automotive community. Yes, 15-18% is a good guideline, and that's all it really is used for. It really doesn't matter what you make at the flywheel or rear wheels if you're concerned about drag racing such as I am.

FWIW, I have a friend who posts there that looses ~170 through his drivetrain.

I think it's interesting you know you want to disagree, but don't know what you're disagreeing about.

Ben

 

Here's a quote I got from Tony Mamo from AFR. Seems like he thinks the same way I do on this, not saying this means much.



"Percentage" driveline losses are a fallacy.

Every driveline of course has a certain amount of "loss", or essentially power required to turn and rotate all of it's mass, frictional losses included, BUT once you knew the "delta" between flywheel HP and RWHP, IT DOES NOT CHANGE.

For example, if you had the oppurtunity to test your engine on a flywheel conventional dyno and it made 400 HP, then installed it in your car and saw 335 HP at the wheels, your driveline losses are obviously 65 HP. Now take that same engine out and bolt it back on the same engine dyno where you now add a set of your favorite heads and a performance camshaft. Presto, you pick up 75 HP on the engine dyno....install in vehicle....back to the chassis dyno....low and behold a 75 HP gain at the wheel!!!

% driveline losses are rough estimates and are only close in a very limited power band. You are correct in your thinking....the same driveline with a 300 HP engine in front of it doesn't mysteriously eat up another 100 HP at the wheels because you just installed an 800 HP powerplant in front of it.

What I like to call the "DELTA" always remains the same. A particular driveline takes "X" amount of power to spin at a certain RPM. It has no idea of how powerfull an engine is bolted in front of it....once the "delta" has been accounted for, any additional power made will simply make it to the rear wheels.

And the best thing about my theory is that it's been proven on the dyno....both of them.

I'm sure this post will stir some controversy....

Regards to all,
Tony Mamo


I don't really want to get into it either.I just pointed out my opinion.

Jay

 

I'm guessing he's not an english major because of his incorrect recurring quotation marks, nor an engineer, because he would through the term "delta" out and not think twice about it.

Seriously, I'm not trying to flame you or hijack this post, but this has been covered numerous times previously. I hope this link adds some insight;

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...threadid=53126

Ben

 

He pulled his engine out, did an engine dyno and saw 170 hp gain?

Take this simple example using the 15% rule.

Car A has 400 RWHP = 460 FWHP a loss of 60hp.
Swap car A's drivetrain into B's
Car B has 5000 RWHP = 5750 fwhp, but is now using car A's drivetrain which only lost 60 on it, but now magically loses 750 hp?

sounds kinda high.

I agree with the 15% rule to an extent but it has to diminish sometime.

Jay

 

id say 350-360 with the cam. sounds like a nice ride

 

Well, ignoring the whole parisitic loss stuff, shouldn't he be putting out higher numbers with his longtubes? I mean, I dynoed over 320 with just a lid and cutout. Dont tell me that headers are only good for 10 hp because that is horrible for the $1000+ price tag.

 

The last 2 years had slightly better heads and the LS6 intake.

Ben

 

Granted, but still, I thought that LTs were the "big ticket" for an NA car excluding heads and cam. I was thinking they were good for up to 30hp with a tune. I believe I saw a few cars with basic bolt ons including headers putting out 360+ at the wheels. By basic bolt ons I mean lid, cutout, pulleys, and thats about it, plus the lts and ypipe. Maybe I was mistaken.

 

Long tubes do add several hp, but he biggest advantage is the kick-in-the-pants low-end that they add. The stuff our 7.5" rear diffs hate.

A better comparison might be track times instead of rwhp numbers.

Ben

 

there is no way LT headers are 30hp...

on a bolt on car...lid, intake, pulley...install LTs, no cats, catback AND a tune, all at the same time...you may see 30hp

but a portion of that is the tune and a portion is the catback...