Well my Formula was dynoed after a lid. It did not gain 10 at the wheels. Once there is one that doesnt, that makes you wrong. So that makes your theory incorrect. Thats scientific law my friend.

Capn Pete said it best though.

 

And I missed this....YOU JUST PROVED MY POINT!!!!!

 

Your results do not speak for an entire community. I have all ready shown you where lids can make 10 rwhp on a nearly stock car. It just doesn't get any clearer then that.

If a lid doesn't fit properly or has any factory defects it will not gain the same as one that came flawless from TSP or SLP. That too was something that article proved. This could have been the case with your car.

You're really stretching on scientific law

I kept reading over and over that lids gain 7-12 rwhp on stock cars. I read an article that showed this to be true. Then you come along and suddenly everyone else is a liar but you tell the truth

Not in this lifetime

 

Do you even understand what that meant? Let me clarify this so you might understand it better.

GM gave us a decent stock tune. What I mean by that is if you take a bone stock LS1 to a dyno and ask a tuning guru to do his stuff you'll gain very little HP. There will be some gain but nothing to write home about. So in other words the stock tune is pretty good for a stock car.

So with this in mind I discredit your argument that the test car in the article would not net similair results to Joe Shmos car with just a catback/cutout. This wasn't a heads cam car with LT's and a spot on dyno tune. As soon as they did three pulls on the stock lid they replaced it with various aftermarket lids. No tuning, just swap the lid and pull three more times. This makes the results accurate.

Nice try though.

 

Here is a link to a thread asking how much airlids gain.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85823

Lemme quote some of the responses for you,

But they all lie right?

This is one of many threads over the years where people have asked this question and always seem to get the same answer. 7-10 rwhp with some claiming 10-15 rwhp.

Dyno proven, ls1tech approved and it certainly has my endorsement.

Lid = $ well spent.

 

Yes, and a stock car is what we are arguing. The car in that article, which I also have at home, has the computer set up, probably on the rich side, so yes it will see more from it. The others on LS1Tech, are all those cars BONE STOCK, down to the tune? Id be willing to bet you that most of those statements are guesses and not dyno proven results on their cars, wouldn't you agree? The only reason that I have done it, is because of personal friends Ive made in the racing world, so I'm fortunate enough to.

My argument is that on a stock car the gains are nothing to write home about. Once one car does not do it, then to say all cars will is incorrect. Of course now that I think of it, there are many other factors at work, elevation, temperature. And the humidity and heat here in Houston is almost second to none. So yes results may vary accordingly.

As for me not getting it on right, no go. My car goes 11's consistently, was daily driven, and all work performed by yours truly. I can install a lid.

 

You don't know that. This isn't SLP or MTI doing that test. Then you could argue bias for them to skew the numbers to be high and in thier favor. But these guys simply took the test car, made a stock set of runs to get the baseline and then started plugging in the lids to see the difference.

IMO it does NOT get any more fair then that.

The comments are based on this is what a lid does to a stock car. Personally, I think it's more then acceptable to add a catback/cutout to the mix since most people do these two mods first anyway.

I showed you dyno proven but you still looked for a way to try and discredit it. Take a look at that thread and any others like it. I notice two things:

1). The number one answer to how much HP will a lid gain is 7-10. Some will say 5-7, some will say 8-12 but 7-10 seems to be the most popular response.

2). There is a distinct lack of people jumping in the threads to say things like "That's wrong, a lid is good for maybe 3-5 rwhp". This indicates to me that 7-10 is not only a popular answer but the one that people who read it don't disagree with (other then you of course).

A lot of people will say 7, 8, 9 or even 10 rwhp is nothing to write home about. Others are happy as hell to gain that much for so little. My argument is that I have been a member of LS1tech, ls1.com/ls2.com and of course camaroz28.com for years. I have read just about every thread dating back to 2002 that has to pertain with bolt-ons (lids included), heads, cams, stalls & N20. These are all subjects I purposely studied since it was in my future plans. So I've read all the threads like "who makes the best lid?", "whos lid makes the most power?" and of course "how much HP gain from a lid?".

In all those threads I have never heard anyone claim a lid was good for less then 5 rwhp like you did. Never. So if 100 people, GMHPM & vendors tell me that a lid is good for 7-10 rwhp and 1 or 2 individual people say it's only good for 3-5 who should I believe?

Anyone can install a lid. Remember the "genius" remark? I never doubted you couldn't. However some lids don't fit well because they were factory defects. It's like anything else you buy, once and awhile a bad apple slips through. I'm sure most of us have spent some time waiting in a customer service line to exchange something that was new but still didn't work. Same principal here.

You could have gotten a bad lid. You could have gotten on a bad dyno. Elevation and weather could have played a roll. All I am saying is there are more logical explanations to yours dynoing low then there ever could be for everyone else lying to us for the last 3-5 years.

 

Yes, yhe LS1 tune is rich at WOT from the factory. Does that make the 7-10hp gain claims less valid?

 

Not to fuel a fire or anything, but my car picked up 2 mph and dropped .1 second in the 1/4 mile when my car was brand new, bone stock, and all I did was install the Direct-Flo lid . But even I question the role that the lid itself played, vs. other factors like track conditions, weather, etc. At that time, my car only ran 14.1 @ 101 STOCK, then 14.0 @ 103. But it was also at a different track (although the weather was identical both times ... high 80's and extremely humid). But THEN my car started running consistant mid-13's the following year, changing nothing!? (except mileage on the car).

Ok, back to the regularily scheduled program .

 

 

I dont know what else to say...I think we can arugue this all day, and besides, yall are having too much fun watching us go back and forth .

For the record, I want to be very clear that Im discussing in here, not just argueing for the sake of it. So no hard feelings ok?

Somehow I still dont think that we are on the exact same page with what we are argueing. But Im having fun. Do you want to keep going Darren?

 

I'm not.