A4 or M6
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 33
From: Northern CA
A4 or M6
what are the pros and cons of the trannys? im just curious whether i should be looking for one or the other. just wanted to know why ones better or what problems they have, etc. im looking to get a 35th anny, or 2000 up ss, so i just want to know performance stuff.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 989
From: Rochester, NY
I'll do my best to answer your question. The pros and cons from my perspective are:
M6 pros
1). Fun to drive. M6 guys always talk about the "fun factor" in rowing through the gears yourself.
2). Faster. The stock M6's will beat the autos in the 1/4 mile race and beyond.
3). Less RWHP loss through the drivetrain. The they will dyno more HP then the autos will because they will only eat up 15% of the fwhp as opposed to 18% that the autos do.
4). Better gas mileage on the highway. With sixth gear they can get better hwy milage then the four speeds can because they can hold higher speeds at lower rpm's.
5). Better gears. The M6 cars come stock with 3.42's (a great gear IMHO) vs the A4's that come with 2.78 or 3.23.
M6 cons
1). clutches. You will go through a few if you race it or drive it hard a lot and I have heard of heavy track goers replacing the clutch at least once a year. But if you don't powershift or race often then it shouldn't be too bad.
2). possible third to second catastrophe. It has been done by more then a few people in a race. They accidentally shift from third into second gear instead of fourth at 6000+ rpms. This usually causes damaged pistons and rods which means new or rebuilt engine time.
3). PITA for daily commutes with heavy traffic. Stop and go grinds into a city five days a week in a manual is not my idea of fun. Try drinking coffee when your constantly shifting in and out of first.
4). Can not utilize torque conveter technology. The M6's get owned at the 1/4 mile drag strip by autos with big stall torque converters even if they have slightly less RWHP then the M6.
5). Harder on the rear end. The 10 bolt rear end tends to go "boom" with hard launches from a M6 on ET streets even with minimal HP mods. 12 bolts are needed much sooner and they run 2k.
Now pros of the A4
1). Better for daily driving in heavy traffic. Like I mentioned in the M6 cons it's easier for stop and go traffic. You can eat a doughnut, drink coffee and still shift in and out of first.
2). Rules the track. The Autos are more consistent and can use torque converters to be faster at the track then similiar RWHP M6's. 95% of the under 10 second ls1's are automatics (although at that point they are usually A3's and not A4's anymore).
3). Easy to drive. Meaning you don't have to worry about missing a shift or doing the third to second fiasco. And not everyone is good at rowing gears so the auto makes it easy for them to be competitive if that is thier thing.
4). Easier on the rear end. It is considerably less shock to the rear when launching hard in an auto so it takes a lot of mods before the auto has to invest the 2k into a 12 bolt.
A4 cons
1). People tend to tease you. Not at the track of course but at school or work the ignorant still believe that it's not a sports car if it's not stick.
2). Less RWHP. you lose more HP through the drivetrain and dyno less then M6's.
3). lower trap speeds. With a torque converter you can beat the M6 off the line but they will always reel you in eventually if the race goes long enough and all other mods are equal. You win the 1/4 mile race but they would own you in a 1/2 mile race.
4). Less fun to drive. If you can drive stick at all it's a lot more fun on old country roads to shift yourself opposed to "stab and steer".
5). not as strong. The T56 trans can handle a lot of power. The 4L60E gets iffy around 400-450 rwhp. You tend to hear of auto trannys going south easier and more often then the manuals after the bigger mods go in.
Well that's about all I can think of (if that wasn't enough). Basically you can sum it up to this.
If you want to race it a lot on the track and deal with heavy traffic then the A4 is for you. If you don't plan on the track too much and ligher traffic is more your style then the M6 will be a lot more fun. But either are a winner because they are both attatched to a bad a$$ car
M6 pros
1). Fun to drive. M6 guys always talk about the "fun factor" in rowing through the gears yourself.
2). Faster. The stock M6's will beat the autos in the 1/4 mile race and beyond.
3). Less RWHP loss through the drivetrain. The they will dyno more HP then the autos will because they will only eat up 15% of the fwhp as opposed to 18% that the autos do.
4). Better gas mileage on the highway. With sixth gear they can get better hwy milage then the four speeds can because they can hold higher speeds at lower rpm's.
5). Better gears. The M6 cars come stock with 3.42's (a great gear IMHO) vs the A4's that come with 2.78 or 3.23.
M6 cons
1). clutches. You will go through a few if you race it or drive it hard a lot and I have heard of heavy track goers replacing the clutch at least once a year. But if you don't powershift or race often then it shouldn't be too bad.
2). possible third to second catastrophe. It has been done by more then a few people in a race. They accidentally shift from third into second gear instead of fourth at 6000+ rpms. This usually causes damaged pistons and rods which means new or rebuilt engine time.
3). PITA for daily commutes with heavy traffic. Stop and go grinds into a city five days a week in a manual is not my idea of fun. Try drinking coffee when your constantly shifting in and out of first.
4). Can not utilize torque conveter technology. The M6's get owned at the 1/4 mile drag strip by autos with big stall torque converters even if they have slightly less RWHP then the M6.
5). Harder on the rear end. The 10 bolt rear end tends to go "boom" with hard launches from a M6 on ET streets even with minimal HP mods. 12 bolts are needed much sooner and they run 2k.
Now pros of the A4
1). Better for daily driving in heavy traffic. Like I mentioned in the M6 cons it's easier for stop and go traffic. You can eat a doughnut, drink coffee and still shift in and out of first.
2). Rules the track. The Autos are more consistent and can use torque converters to be faster at the track then similiar RWHP M6's. 95% of the under 10 second ls1's are automatics (although at that point they are usually A3's and not A4's anymore).
3). Easy to drive. Meaning you don't have to worry about missing a shift or doing the third to second fiasco. And not everyone is good at rowing gears so the auto makes it easy for them to be competitive if that is thier thing.
4). Easier on the rear end. It is considerably less shock to the rear when launching hard in an auto so it takes a lot of mods before the auto has to invest the 2k into a 12 bolt.
A4 cons
1). People tend to tease you. Not at the track of course but at school or work the ignorant still believe that it's not a sports car if it's not stick.
2). Less RWHP. you lose more HP through the drivetrain and dyno less then M6's.
3). lower trap speeds. With a torque converter you can beat the M6 off the line but they will always reel you in eventually if the race goes long enough and all other mods are equal. You win the 1/4 mile race but they would own you in a 1/2 mile race.
4). Less fun to drive. If you can drive stick at all it's a lot more fun on old country roads to shift yourself opposed to "stab and steer".
5). not as strong. The T56 trans can handle a lot of power. The 4L60E gets iffy around 400-450 rwhp. You tend to hear of auto trannys going south easier and more often then the manuals after the bigger mods go in.
Well that's about all I can think of (if that wasn't enough). Basically you can sum it up to this.
If you want to race it a lot on the track and deal with heavy traffic then the A4 is for you. If you don't plan on the track too much and ligher traffic is more your style then the M6 will be a lot more fun. But either are a winner because they are both attatched to a bad a$$ car
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 273
From: Kansas
I love my m6, but one thing that drives me crazy is the darn center console drink holder. Having the manual renders that thing useless and/or annoying when you have a cup in it and are reaching over it to shift. Some days i'd rather have an auto, but most days I love the manual. Get the manual 
when it comes time to sell the car, it might up the resale.
when it comes time to sell the car, it might up the resale.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,104
From: springfield, IL
Originally posted by Lan01z
I love my m6, but one thing that drives me crazy is the darn center console drink holder. Having the manual renders that thing useless and/or annoying when you have a cup in it and are reaching over it to shift. Some days i'd rather have an auto, but most days I love the manual. Get the manual when it comes time to sell the car, it might up the resale.
I love my m6, but one thing that drives me crazy is the darn center console drink holder. Having the manual renders that thing useless and/or annoying when you have a cup in it and are reaching over it to shift. Some days i'd rather have an auto, but most days I love the manual. Get the manual
when it comes time to sell the car, it might up the resale.
....... i use it ALL the time because i rest my elbow on the armrest when i drive. only problem with that is now theres a dent in the arm rest and idk how i'm gonna get that out 
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,486
From: FL
Originally posted by darrens99formul
2). Faster. The stock M6's will beat the autos in the 1/4 mile race and beyond.
2). Rules the track. The Autos are more consistent and can use torque converters to be faster at the track then similiar RWHP M6's. 95% of the under 10 second ls1's are automatics (although at that point they are usually A3's and not A4's anymore).
2). Faster. The stock M6's will beat the autos in the 1/4 mile race and beyond.
2). Rules the track. The Autos are more consistent and can use torque converters to be faster at the track then similiar RWHP M6's. 95% of the under 10 second ls1's are automatics (although at that point they are usually A3's and not A4's anymore).
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 989
From: Rochester, NY
I know that seems a little confusing but the key words are torque converter. The automatic can not beat the M6 in the 1/4 mile with similair HP if it's still on the stock torque converter. So Faster out of the box goes to the M6 both top and low end.
But only automatics can use the aftermarket torque converters. Once a nice 3500 or better stall is put in with decent rear tires then the table turns. Then the Automatic will be able to beat the manual in the 1/4 mile race when HP and weight is similair. That is why the A3 and A4's rule the track. They can utilize the torque converter technology to allow very low 60' times (i've seen some cars with yank pt4400 and N20 hit 1.2 60').
Hopefully that clears it up for you. Bone stock the M6 has you beat every way you can think of in a race but high stalled A4's become a force to be reckoned with in the 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile tracks.
But only automatics can use the aftermarket torque converters. Once a nice 3500 or better stall is put in with decent rear tires then the table turns. Then the Automatic will be able to beat the manual in the 1/4 mile race when HP and weight is similair. That is why the A3 and A4's rule the track. They can utilize the torque converter technology to allow very low 60' times (i've seen some cars with yank pt4400 and N20 hit 1.2 60').
Hopefully that clears it up for you. Bone stock the M6 has you beat every way you can think of in a race but high stalled A4's become a force to be reckoned with in the 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile tracks.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 273
From: Kansas
Originally posted by red91tsiawd
there is the holder on the side ....... i use it ALL the time because i rest my elbow on the armrest when i drive. only problem with that is now theres a dent in the arm rest and idk how i'm gonna get that out
there is the holder on the side
....... i use it ALL the time because i rest my elbow on the armrest when i drive. only problem with that is now theres a dent in the arm rest and idk how i'm gonna get that out
When i'm by myself I use the holder on the side, but when other people get fast food with me they want to use it for some reason.
I usually end up putting my drink in the back holders then. Its a totally pain in the (_)_)
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 897
From: Bartlett, IL
I would have to say go test drive both. The only reason i have an auto in my car is because i got a really good deal on it. I really miss not having an M6 sometimes but then again i am really happy with my A4. All i really have to do is a torque converter and some gears and i will be flyin.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,104
From: springfield, IL
Originally posted by Lan01z
Believe me, i know..
When i'm by myself I use the holder on the side, but when other people get fast food with me they want to use it for some reason. I usually end up putting my drink in the back holders then. Its a totally pain in the (_)_)
Believe me, i know..
When i'm by myself I use the holder on the side, but when other people get fast food with me they want to use it for some reason.
I usually end up putting my drink in the back holders then. Its a totally pain in the (_)_)
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 273
From: Kansas
Originally posted by red91tsiawd
my "men" are usually frozin when other ppl have drinks also because i don't want to have a chance of spilling it in my car
my "men" are usually frozin when other ppl have drinks also because i don't want to have a chance of spilling it in my car
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,308
From: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
Originally posted by darrens99formul
Bone stock the M6 has you beat every way you can think of in a race but high stalled A4's become a force to be reckoned with in the 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile tracks.
Bone stock the M6 has you beat every way you can think of in a race but high stalled A4's become a force to be reckoned with in the 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile tracks.
. The problem with standards are that the average driver isn't a "pro", and especially in a race against an equally powered car, you've gotta be damn good otherwise the auto will probably take the win if the stick driver can't A) launch good, or B) shift quickly. Take for example a Z06 at the track that was only running a 13.2 on the same night I was running 13.4..................with over 50 HP more than what I've got, the Z06 should have been running better than just 2 tenths quicker. The "average" auto driver will be way more consistent and competitive than the "average" standard driver.Just my $.02
. But get whatever tranny you think you'd prefer. I know that ~90% of the time, I'm happier with the A4.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 33
From: Northern CA
wow, thanks for soo much info, yeah, i almost only do highway driving, i can pretty much say i never launch hard, cuz i dont, and i HATE city driving ,as most of us do. anyways, the info was exactly what i was looking for. But can someone explain to me how the gearing works? i dont know what it meanse by 2.73 or 3.42, what the numbers mean, what they come from, why they are better, etc.
any help for a noobie? i dont have to worry about that stuff in my mazda, even when it was turboed.....
any help for a noobie? i dont have to worry about that stuff in my mazda, even when it was turboed.....
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 989
From: Rochester, NY
Capn pete you are absolutely right that a stock auto can beat a stock manual if the M6 driver messes up the launch, shifts bad or misses a shift. I should have said equal drivers or without driver error.
It pains me to admit it but the M6's with a good driver will beat my auto. But that is only until my converter goes in and then the tables turn and I will be all smiles
Sorry if I was too vague. A lot of M6 owners (especially new owners) can not drive them well so it's definately not etched in stone that they will win. Anytime you line up with another car you have to factor in driver error. And autos are far more consistent because of that fact. There is still room for driver error in a A4 but not nearly as much as a M6.
It pains me to admit it but the M6's with a good driver will beat my auto. But that is only until my converter goes in and then the tables turn and I will be all smiles
Sorry if I was too vague. A lot of M6 owners (especially new owners) can not drive them well so it's definately not etched in stone that they will win. Anytime you line up with another car you have to factor in driver error. And autos are far more consistent because of that fact. There is still room for driver error in a A4 but not nearly as much as a M6.
