Window fix availble
09-10-2007, 09:18 AM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DOVER DE
Posts: 2,140
This is money well spent and could be used on the driver side as well. Although you probably won't see the same increase in performance with the driverside.
Re'
^^
09-27-2007, 10:14 AM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Madison, Wi
Posts: 1,526
Just this last weekend I bypassed the thermal overrrides on both my motors. I simply soldered a thick piece of copper wire from the brush hood to the contact for the connector inside the motor housings. I did not molest the thermal override strips, I left them un touched. Electricity will take the path of least resistance, so the new wire will handle the load. I also lubricatred both motors with some light oil.
Both my windows go up and down really nice now. Just like any normal new car.
I can use my hand to stop them to, so I know they are not going to sever anyones limbs. I spend a good 10 minutes making the window go up and down, I'm sure it was well over 100 times and the motor never got hot. I even held the switch on after the window stopped for 15 seconds and the motor stayed cool. I'm very comfortable with this mod now.
09-27-2007, 11:34 AM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kantuckee Yo'
Posts: 4,405
There are two major points of resistance that cause power loss to the window motors thus causing slow windows:
1. The thermal cut-off circuit inside the motor.
2. The primary wiring leading to the motor itself has aged and become resistive.
A good while back I defeated the thermal cut-off circuits (long before the relays) by removing the cut-off terminal and soldering in a wire. This helped some but then the motors started to slow again.
When I did the relay mod they rolled up rocket fast like the car was built yesterday. This is because the high resistance wiring is no longer providing primary voltage to the motors, the exisiting high resistance wiring is only triggering the relays. BTW I have done the relay mod to both of my window motors and they roll up and down at the exact same speed, only doing the relay mod to the passenger window motor will cause the passenger side to be noticably faster than the driver side still.
I think the relay mod will provide much better results over the thermal cut-off deletion mod IMHO based on what I stated above.
I now believe that the thermal cut-off inside the window motors and the motors themselves work well and do not cause problems except when the exisiting primary wiring becomes extremely resistive over time. I cussed GM for years saying the motors were poorly engineered and underpowered, its the existing wiring and possibly the voltage drops of the window switches that are the real problem. Also the passenger side is the bigger problem since the length of wiring is much greater thus creating even more voltage drop.
When I did the install, I used wired sockets that the relays simply plug into just like the relays under the hood. They can be quickly replaced and are very unlikely to ever fail. I will also add that I think it is easier to do the relay mod since you do not have to remove the window motors at all or disassemble the motors. I also like the idea of relays fixing the true problem and leaving the thermal cut-off un-altered, it is afterall the safety circuit and is nice to have just in case an obstruction like an arm gets caught in the window.
1. The thermal cut-off circuit inside the motor.
2. The primary wiring leading to the motor itself has aged and become resistive.
A good while back I defeated the thermal cut-off circuits (long before the relays) by removing the cut-off terminal and soldering in a wire. This helped some but then the motors started to slow again.
When I did the relay mod they rolled up rocket fast like the car was built yesterday. This is because the high resistance wiring is no longer providing primary voltage to the motors, the exisiting high resistance wiring is only triggering the relays. BTW I have done the relay mod to both of my window motors and they roll up and down at the exact same speed, only doing the relay mod to the passenger window motor will cause the passenger side to be noticably faster than the driver side still.
I think the relay mod will provide much better results over the thermal cut-off deletion mod IMHO based on what I stated above.
I now believe that the thermal cut-off inside the window motors and the motors themselves work well and do not cause problems except when the exisiting primary wiring becomes extremely resistive over time. I cussed GM for years saying the motors were poorly engineered and underpowered, its the existing wiring and possibly the voltage drops of the window switches that are the real problem. Also the passenger side is the bigger problem since the length of wiring is much greater thus creating even more voltage drop.
When I did the install, I used wired sockets that the relays simply plug into just like the relays under the hood. They can be quickly replaced and are very unlikely to ever fail. I will also add that I think it is easier to do the relay mod since you do not have to remove the window motors at all or disassemble the motors. I also like the idea of relays fixing the true problem and leaving the thermal cut-off un-altered, it is afterall the safety circuit and is nice to have just in case an obstruction like an arm gets caught in the window.
09-27-2007, 02:30 PM
#20
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 57
Everything fails after repeated use and wear- springs, brushes, ect. This might not be the specific case at hand but any one thing can fail in the whole design, its never always just one thing. The thermal strip, brushes and coil windings deteriorate due to excessive heat ( in most cases ) from the under gauged and poorly designed window circuit as wrd1972 has stated. All new GM's have a relayed power source to their window switches now and for safey reasons I am sure a thermal proxy switch is still in the circuit causing no problems at all.
Last edited by autotrix; 09-27-2007 at 02:33 PM.
10-11-2007, 11:10 PM
#22
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 57
Its worth a try! Alot of people are using original motors and praising for how much better they operate after the install. Even if you motors are dead the kit is in and the new motor will only benefit.
10-12-2007, 06:07 AM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,272
I think this will work great because the pass window has always been slow. though when the button on both doors is pushed it seems to help(barely, but it helps) I'll have to order this sometime in the next week or so.
03-17-2008, 08:44 AM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,272
bringing this one back...though I'm sure there may be a more up to date thread.
I FINALLY got around to installing this kit and it was pretty easy to do. only complaint is gm's cheap plastic interior parts breaking
stupid door panel clips...
window works great so far. its now a little faster than the driver window. seems to be about 3 seconds up and 3 seconds down. now I don't have to worry if the window made it up all the way everytime rains.
I FINALLY got around to installing this kit and it was pretty easy to do. only complaint is gm's cheap plastic interior parts breaking
stupid door panel clips...window works great so far. its now a little faster than the driver window. seems to be about 3 seconds up and 3 seconds down. now I don't have to worry if the window made it up all the way everytime rains.
03-19-2008, 11:01 PM
#28
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 213
There are two major points of resistance that cause power loss to the window motors thus causing slow windows:
1. The thermal cut-off circuit inside the motor.
2. The primary wiring leading to the motor itself has aged and become resistive.
...
I cussed GM for years saying the motors were poorly engineered and underpowered, its the existing wiring and possibly the voltage drops of the window switches that are the real problem. Also the passenger side is the bigger problem since the length of wiring is much greater thus creating even more voltage drop.
1. The thermal cut-off circuit inside the motor.
2. The primary wiring leading to the motor itself has aged and become resistive.
...
I cussed GM for years saying the motors were poorly engineered and underpowered, its the existing wiring and possibly the voltage drops of the window switches that are the real problem. Also the passenger side is the bigger problem since the length of wiring is much greater thus creating even more voltage drop.
While I don't necessarily agree with the first two statements, I won't argue. However, I would add the quality of the connections with the window switches themselves (they are bare copper and will oxidize and tarnish) which is a bad thing for high currents. The relay mod redirects the high current from the switches to the relays. While this will help and most people are getting decent results, it does nothing to address the crappy connector at the window motor (which can also oxidize, tarnish, and even burn). When installing relays, Autotrix kits, or what have you, I would recommend to also clean ALL terminals (existing motors, switches, etc.) involved with the window circuits.
Ditto on cussing GM for years. I've owned three Ford SUV's from 1993 to 2000 and the power windows are much faster and more reliable than on any GM car I've ever owned. And they basically operate the same way... without relays.
04-16-2008, 04:47 PM
#29
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 57
Yes, you are most definitely right about those open prong style connections getting very tarnished. Cleaning those with a spray electrical cleaner is a great idea; a bit of dielectric grease probably wouldn't hurt either.
I have also seen some very bad window motor connectors that have been extremely corroded.
We are just trying to make the world better one step at a time.
I have also seen some very bad window motor connectors that have been extremely corroded.
We are just trying to make the world better one step at a time.
