Hey, i know this isn't a Question about my camaro, but we got some really smart ppl here i know can help.

Im buying a 89 K5 blazer and i will be flying form FL to OH to pick it up and take it on a road trip to chicago then to TX before i return home to FL.
Everything looks good on it and nearly everything has been replaced or upgraded on the drivetrain...

anyway the Air conditioning is not working
Apperantly the blazer has been in storage most of the last 8 years especially the last 3ye he claim only a couple mile.
He swears a/c was charged up and cold as hell 3 years ago. but he said the compressor did not click on the last time he started it before it went for sale.
Sound like just leaked out its charge right(if he is honest)?

My questions are
A. Can i just thrown in a can of R134 to make it work for the trip home? conversion adaptors are less then $10

B. Can i still buy R12?

C. Anyone in that area got hookups with a place i could maybe get a vacume pulled and refilled with r134 for cheap? I know i can in florida from a friends shop for abut $25, but anywhere else like a a/c shop or even pepbopys is like over a $100.

Thanks

ken

 

You cannont mix refrigerants.

 

Ok didn't think so, just checking...

So where can i get some R12?

 

A: yes and no.. yes you can get a port adapter and put some 134a in the system but that doesn;t mean that it will work. chances are that the front seal is leaking and 134 will actualy leak faster then R12. as you use it the front seal "might" close up some.

b: No, you need a licence to buy it and even if you got some it's abouta 5 times as expensive as 134. there are products like "freeze 12" that is a legal R12 replacement. that is what I recomend using since it holds most of the same properties.



what I would recomend is to do it somewhat right. have the fron removed. the system vacuumed and then the correct amount of freeze 12 added. all in all it should cost you between 50 -75 for that depending. but at least that way it will work better.



now. since it was brought up..

yes you can mix 12 and 134. it's the oils that are highly incompatable. trust m. I mix them every day. in fact. freeze 12 is about 80% 134a. but there are issues with it.. the compressors are different between 134 and 12. 12 system usualy have smaller condensors and evap cores. so when you go and put 134a in it doesn't coll as well cause there is not enough surface area to coll it down. 134a also has different properties that will make it hard to get a full charge. I would guess that the rate of thermal expantion is higher but thats just a guess. the problem is that 24 ounces of 12 will have a lower pressure then 24 ounces of 134. therefor you can not always geta full charge when you convert which means bad cooling

 

Errrrrr that sucks.

So to proporly convert to 134..i would need a lot of new a/c parts like a compressors etc?? darn...

Well i will look into the freeze 12 stuff. maybe addin a can or two will work just enough to keep me cool while im drivin in the south.

 

yeah. to do it right darn near everything needs to be replaced and flushed. but yeah. freez 12 is about 12-14 bucks a can. and people usualy charge about 20-30 bucks to put it in.. again. depending. that would be your best bet untill you can get it filled and find the leak and do it right.. and when you do don;t worry about converting. just fix the parts and then find some freeze 12 and fill it with that the right way. trust me. I have frozen my toes off when using freeze 12, the best I ever got with a 134 convertion was a little chilli.. I can't stand convertions

 

No you cant mix R-12 and R-134a They are two completly diffrent refridgreants that work at diffrent pressures. If mixed they will change the oil to an acid that will kill seals in a hurry. How can I be so sure? I'm a graduate of Northwestern tech heating and cooling school. I also have an EPA universal certificate to purchase. If you want A/C I suggest you get the whole system converted to R-134a. You could get the compressor rebuilt and then pull down the system and recharge with R-12. But the conversion will be much more cost effective in the long run (plus its a little more friendly to the Ozone)

 

I dissagree.. on 2 points.

you can mix it. I didn;t say it didn;t have any bad side effects but it can be done.


I also dissagree with converting to 134.. have you done this in teh real world or just learned about it? if you ahve you know that it nevver gets as cool. have you ever used freeze 12? it;s a great product and will cool so much better then 134a AND you can keep all the R12 componants including the mineral oil. Just like you said they opperate at a different pressure range, which is why you cna not get a retro 134 to cool as well. it will cost less to just use freeze 12, it's compatable with r12, and cools better then 134a.. how can that be beat?

 

hehehh

I got another question for you, wonder if it has even ever been tried.

What about pulling a vacume and putting in the "freeze 12" or R12 replacement in a 134 system?
My camaros AC never really go super cold like i like and its needs a new compresors anyway. if im going to have to fill it up anyway. what would putting freeze 12 do to it?

just currious

 

sorry. a 134 system needs to stay that way.. if it never was very cold it was probbaly in need of some service. whats wrong with the compressor? did it lock up or just leak? a lot of times when you have correct pressure but teh cooling doesn;t seem right the drier needs to be rplaced. but, when you do a compressor you shoould replace the drier and H valve anyway. in fact most times they will not warrenty a compressor unless you replace it and flush the system. I bet if you do all that and have a vacuum recharge it will work better then before.

there could also be some trash on the evap core..

 

Ok, so you can mix them, but why would you want to? My GM manual says this:

 

compressor leaks...90k miles. needs a can of 134 every month. but to poor to buy a compressor.
i will do all that soon. but what is flushing the system?

 

anyhooo... to work thru all the BS and theory in here..



ive done it. it can be done. its not "right" or "correct".

it has been working for 2 and a half years.




heres my take on your unusual situation.

you just need AC for the drive, right? it would be nice if it worked forever that way, but you can understand that the seals do leak, and you're probly going to have to tear it apart to replace the O rings later on.
as long as you realize that you are contaminating the R12 so that noone will want to pull it out for you later, you're fine.

the major thing you have to deal with is oil... there will have to be two types in your system.. one for the 134a, and one for the R12...

if you buy the adapters, and a can(s) of premixed oil and charge, you should be fine. you are going to have to fill it to a higher pressure, but it'll be fine.
most likely though, its almost totally empty of R12.... in that case, just fill it totally with 134a.

yes it will leak out faster, but not so fast that you cant get home in the comfort of AC. (yea, i actually read the post of what you wanted to do, and didnt give you a crap answer of what you "SHOULD" do )




you need a license to buy R12, and it costs too much anyway.. when you swap to 134a, get a diffrent orfice tube... while it still wont be AS cold, it'll be close, and you probly cant tell the diff without a thermometer in the vent.

you can try a residental place... or any small shop. id call around at local shops, and tell them the system was open.. dont mention any R12 collection, and the price goes down alot. ( of course, the system should be open first, since you need to change seals, and possibly hoses.)

 

2 problems..

1 the orifice tube is the same
2 there is no orifice tube. it;s an expantion system


but yes.. it does work adding 134.. your not supose dto be we do a lot of work for used car lots and they want the cheep fix so every car of theres gets 134a no matter what system it is..






as for flushing.. I gave a compleate rundown in another post. I'll find it for you but since yours is just leaking you can get away with just replacing the comonents and changing the o rings


EDIT: read my last post here. it descibes the process of flushing the system. it's really not a bad idea to do even tho you don;t really "need it"

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...3&page=2&pp=15

 

well, its hard to say theres no orifice tube when you dont know exactly what year it is.. i mean, there is no 89 K5 blazer. theres a 89 S10 blazer. and theres a 79 K5...... but im pretty sure they BOTH have the same AC system that GM put on all their cars of that era, so it doesnt matter. its actually the same as my 91 camaro's.

the GM standard Orifice Tube, for our application, is 0.72 White or White/Black (designed for R12). The GM 0.72 Orifice Tube will work, however, research and experience have found that using the Ford 0.67 Blue Orifice Tube provides better performance for our retrofitted cars due to the smaller opening (for the smaller molecular makeup of R134a compared to R12). A better regulated flow into the evaporator proves to have better and more efficient cooling. We recommend the Ford 0.67 Blue Orifice Tube for this application. These should be available at most automotive stores (NAPA) or other local automotive AC shops. If needed, ask for one for an 82 to 89 Ford Thunderbird w/ 302 CID V8. You can also order one online at ACKits.com or if you prefer a kit of multiple sizes for different applications, ACSource.com has these. They run about $2 to $5, depending on where you buy it.

(half of that was stolen from here because im lazy.. actually, thats quite a good retrofit artical. )