How much faster is a LS1 compared to an LT1?
06-05-2008, 07:52 AM
#32
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
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Why not? 
You should see at least 300 at the wheels. 305 - 310 is quite normal, and some of the real ringers have dyno'd OVER 320 stock!! 
Keep in mind, there are always production variances, and there will always be factory slugs and factory freaks. Also, the conditions at the time you do your pull can have an effect (although with SAE correction factors, it shouldn't really matter for your actual result).
Like I said, I saw 289 with the A4/4.10's.
And what would be the realistic dyno on my 1999 Z28? 72k miles. Would it get 310RWHP? its a 6 speed btw
Keep in mind, there are always production variances, and there will always be factory slugs and factory freaks. Also, the conditions at the time you do your pull can have an effect (although with SAE correction factors, it shouldn't really matter for your actual result).Like I said, I saw 289 with the A4/4.10's.
06-05-2008, 11:57 AM
#33
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,834
06-06-2008, 09:22 AM
#36
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
Posts: 5,308
Guys, do the math 
:
We already KNOW that the LS1 is good for at least ~340 HP, and easily upwards of ~350 HP.
I think if you read around, you'll also discover that 12% and 15% are the approx. drivetrain losses for M6's and A4's respectively.
So, on the lower end of the scale:
340 HP x 0.88 = 299.2 RWHP (M6, w/12% loss)
340 HP x 0.85 = 289.0 RWHP (A4, w/ 15% loss)
And on the slightly higher end of the scale:
350 HP x 0.88 = 308.0 RWHP (M6)
350 HP x 0.85 = 297.5 RWHP (A4)
For more ***** and giggles, let's assume that the factory isn't perfect, and they build some engines a little better, and others a little worse than "the norm". How much of a tolerance do you think they're within, 5% +/-?? Let's look at that, based on a 340 HP LS1 :
340 HP - 5% = 323 HP x 0.88 = 284.24 RWHP (M6)
340 HP - 5% = 323 HP x 0.85 = 274.55 RWHP (A4)
340 HP + 5% = 357 HP x 0.88 = 314.16 RWHP (M6)
340 HP + 5% = 357 HP x 0.85 = 303.45 RWHP (A4)
NOW, let's for a moment, consider an '01/'02 SS/WS6, with the LS6 intake manifold, a FACTORY improved air intake, and FACTORY installed cat-back exhaust. Can we "PLEASE" agree that that should free up the air flow to allow for a true 350 HP??
Ok, so at 350 HP, and on the GRAND end of the scale, our "factory ringer", making "5%" more than the next "average" engine ...
350 HP x 1.05 (5%) = 367.5 HP x 0.88 = 323.4 RWHP!! (M6)
350 HP x 1.05 (5%) = 367.5 HP x 0.85 = 312.4 RWHP (A4)
So overall, we've seen that an LS1 can dyno anywhere from ~275 - 323 RWHP.
CONCLUSION:
"Most" M6's will dyno ~300 - 308 RWHP, and "most" A4's will dyno ~290 - 298 RWHP
.
Happy?
:We already KNOW that the LS1 is good for at least ~340 HP, and easily upwards of ~350 HP.
I think if you read around, you'll also discover that 12% and 15% are the approx. drivetrain losses for M6's and A4's respectively.
So, on the lower end of the scale:
340 HP x 0.88 = 299.2 RWHP (M6, w/12% loss)
340 HP x 0.85 = 289.0 RWHP (A4, w/ 15% loss)
And on the slightly higher end of the scale:
350 HP x 0.88 = 308.0 RWHP (M6)
350 HP x 0.85 = 297.5 RWHP (A4)
For more ***** and giggles, let's assume that the factory isn't perfect, and they build some engines a little better, and others a little worse than "the norm". How much of a tolerance do you think they're within, 5% +/-??
Let's look at that, based on a 340 HP LS1 :340 HP - 5% = 323 HP x 0.88 = 284.24 RWHP (M6)
340 HP - 5% = 323 HP x 0.85 = 274.55 RWHP (A4)
340 HP + 5% = 357 HP x 0.88 = 314.16 RWHP (M6)
340 HP + 5% = 357 HP x 0.85 = 303.45 RWHP (A4)
NOW, let's for a moment, consider an '01/'02 SS/WS6, with the LS6 intake manifold, a FACTORY improved air intake, and FACTORY installed cat-back exhaust
. Can we "PLEASE" agree that that should free up the air flow to allow for a true 350 HP?? Ok, so at 350 HP, and on the GRAND end of the scale, our "factory ringer", making "5%" more than the next "average" engine ...
350 HP x 1.05 (5%) = 367.5 HP x 0.88 = 323.4 RWHP!! (M6)
350 HP x 1.05 (5%) = 367.5 HP x 0.85 = 312.4 RWHP (A4)
So overall, we've seen that an LS1 can dyno anywhere from ~275 - 323 RWHP.
CONCLUSION:
"Most" M6's will dyno ~300 - 308 RWHP, and "most" A4's will dyno ~290 - 298 RWHP
.Happy?
Last edited by Capn Pete; 06-06-2008 at 09:27 AM.
06-07-2008, 10:00 AM
#38
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 459
For the way I drive, my LT1 fits me perfect I don't drag race and almost never street race. I just use my formula for grunting through traffic and getting sideways on occasion, and for that the instant, brutal low end hit is perfect. For keeping folks from cutting you off, or trying to squeeze you out on lights or freeway on-ramps, I've never had a rig yet of any kind out punch me for a spot 
For me the LT's powerband is perfect, and honestly I wouldn't trade it for a peakier engine with more power, cause I rarely wind mine up tight enough to matter. If I do any mods, a big part of what I do will be greatly affected by what it does to my low end.......cause for me, just like my bikes, I prefer a big juicy low end over a peaky powerband in my cars
I don't drag race and almost never street race. I just use my formula for grunting through traffic and getting sideways on occasion, and for that the instant, brutal low end hit is perfect. For keeping folks from cutting you off, or trying to squeeze you out on lights or freeway on-ramps, I've never had a rig yet of any kind out punch me for a spot For me the LT's powerband is perfect, and honestly I wouldn't trade it for a peakier engine with more power, cause I rarely wind mine up tight enough to matter. If I do any mods, a big part of what I do will be greatly affected by what it does to my low end.......cause for me, just like my bikes, I prefer a big juicy low end over a peaky powerband in my cars
06-07-2008, 10:21 AM
#39
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
Posts: 5,308
Yeah, but no. The ls1 doesn't have the "burst" torque of the lt1, its smoother (making you think its slower) and more consistent. I used to think like you when I owned my lt1, then I got my ls1 and saw how flawed my view was. The ls1 is far more entertaining to drive around, even if you only take it to 2200 rpms.
Seriously, I couldn't believe how hard it slammed me back into the seat from a dead stop and initially hitting the throttle (and it was an auto with fairly high gears, probably ~low 3.00's or maybe even 2.73's or something? ). So for stoplight to stoplight, it would certainly "feel" really quick. But the real disappointing part was revving the thing beyond ~2500 - 3000 RPM. Once that baby got spun up to ~4000 RPM???? .......................... 
...................... flat-line!! 
I've driven a couple LT1's as well. They feel like they're somewhere in between the L98 and the LS1 in terms of "feel". Good, quick throttle response (down low) but they do flat-line up high, although not NEARLY as bad as the L98's.
The difference with the LS1 is that they pour the power on smooth, but they just seem to keep going, and going, and going!!
That doesn't mean that they LACK anything on the bottom end though .
06-07-2008, 11:06 AM
#41
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 459
Exactly how I see it. Ls1s just keep pulling and pulling. After having an LT1 for 2 years, its like a dream come true. (no more useless high-rpms)
On the same token, I drove an '87 'Vette with the L98 one time. It was bone stock, but what a torque monster!! Seriously, I couldn't believe how hard it slammed me back into the seat from a dead stop and initially hitting the throttle (and it was an auto with fairly high gears, probably ~low 3.00's or maybe even 2.73's or something? ). So for stoplight to stoplight, it would certainly "feel" really quick. But the real disappointing part was revving the thing beyond ~2500 - 3000 RPM. Once that baby got spun up to ~4000 RPM???? .......................... ...................... flat-line!!
I've driven a couple LT1's as well. They feel like they're somewhere in between the L98 and the LS1 in terms of "feel". Good, quick throttle response (down low) but they do flat-line up high, although not NEARLY as bad as the L98's.
The difference with the LS1 is that they pour the power on smooth, but they just seem to keep going, and going, and going!! That doesn't mean that they LACK anything on the bottom end though .
Seriously, I couldn't believe how hard it slammed me back into the seat from a dead stop and initially hitting the throttle (and it was an auto with fairly high gears, probably ~low 3.00's or maybe even 2.73's or something? ). So for stoplight to stoplight, it would certainly "feel" really quick. But the real disappointing part was revving the thing beyond ~2500 - 3000 RPM. Once that baby got spun up to ~4000 RPM???? .......................... ...................... flat-line!! I've driven a couple LT1's as well. They feel like they're somewhere in between the L98 and the LS1 in terms of "feel". Good, quick throttle response (down low) but they do flat-line up high, although not NEARLY as bad as the L98's.
The difference with the LS1 is that they pour the power on smooth, but they just seem to keep going, and going, and going!!
That doesn't mean that they LACK anything on the bottom end though .
06-07-2008, 11:17 AM
#42
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: McDonough ,Ga
Posts: 11
Back when i had a ' 96 mustang Gt it didn't matter if it was a LS1 or LT1 the tail lights is what i got to see everytime. I ran one from a dig a '96 SS with a 150 shot even though he said he never sprayed me. '96-'01 Z/28's was what i encountered most in roll racing with the result being multiple car length's loss' "Hey it was fun to try ,wish i had more power!" LT1/LS1's still equalled awesome in my book!!!!!!
06-08-2008, 10:44 AM
#43
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: St. Clair Shores Mi. USA
Posts: 238
I remember years ago seeing a stock dyno graph of LT1 and LS1's overlapped and the LT1 made slightly more power below 2000 rpm, problem is how much time do you spend below 2000 rpm in a drag race.
Not to bash up on LT1's but the only loss I have to one was a guy on NOS
I've run dozens of them and other LS cars mainly cause they were better competition then the Ford boys esp. back in the early LS days. I've even gone up against a couple of Hotcamed LT1's at the Track one an M6 w/ 4.10's and another a drop top auto w/3.42's. Both had faster times then me by .001 to .010 but I had 2mph on them at the traps and a better RT. This is only to show that the faster or more powerfull car is NOT always the winner in a drag race, and experience has it's merits.
Also food for thought I dynoed my Lid & Catback M6 LS1 Formula a couple yrs ago. On a Dynapack it made 300 RWHP and 322 RWTQ at a tired 109K miles and on the Original Clutch.
Not to bash up on LT1's but the only loss I have to one was a guy on NOS
I've run dozens of them and other LS cars mainly cause they were better competition then the Ford boys esp. back in the early LS days. I've even gone up against a couple of Hotcamed LT1's at the Track one an M6 w/ 4.10's and another a drop top auto w/3.42's. Both had faster times then me by .001 to .010 but I had 2mph on them at the traps and a better RT. This is only to show that the faster or more powerfull car is NOT always the winner in a drag race, and experience has it's merits.
Also food for thought I dynoed my Lid & Catback M6 LS1 Formula a couple yrs ago. On a Dynapack it made 300 RWHP and 322 RWTQ at a tired 109K miles and on the Original Clutch.
06-09-2008, 02:53 AM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,174
Guys, do the math :
We already KNOW that the LS1 is good for at least ~340 HP, and easily upwards of ~350 HP.
I think if you read around, you'll also discover that 12% and 15% are the approx. drivetrain losses for M6's and A4's respectively.
So, on the lower end of the scale:
340 HP x 0.88 = 299.2 RWHP (M6, w/12% loss)
340 HP x 0.85 = 289.0 RWHP (A4, w/ 15% loss)
And on the slightly higher end of the scale:
350 HP x 0.88 = 308.0 RWHP (M6)
350 HP x 0.85 = 297.5 RWHP (A4)
For more ***** and giggles, let's assume that the factory isn't perfect, and they build some engines a little better, and others a little worse than "the norm". How much of a tolerance do you think they're within, 5% +/-?? Let's look at that, based on a 340 HP LS1 :
340 HP - 5% = 323 HP x 0.88 = 284.24 RWHP (M6)
340 HP - 5% = 323 HP x 0.85 = 274.55 RWHP (A4)
340 HP + 5% = 357 HP x 0.88 = 314.16 RWHP (M6)
340 HP + 5% = 357 HP x 0.85 = 303.45 RWHP (A4)
NOW, let's for a moment, consider an '01/'02 SS/WS6, with the LS6 intake manifold, a FACTORY improved air intake, and FACTORY installed cat-back exhaust. Can we "PLEASE" agree that that should free up the air flow to allow for a true 350 HP??
Ok, so at 350 HP, and on the GRAND end of the scale, our "factory ringer", making "5%" more than the next "average" engine ...
350 HP x 1.05 (5%) = 367.5 HP x 0.88 = 323.4 RWHP!! (M6)
350 HP x 1.05 (5%) = 367.5 HP x 0.85 = 312.4 RWHP (A4)
So overall, we've seen that an LS1 can dyno anywhere from ~275 - 323 RWHP.
CONCLUSION:
"Most" M6's will dyno ~300 - 308 RWHP, and "most" A4's will dyno ~290 - 298 RWHP.
Happy?
:We already KNOW that the LS1 is good for at least ~340 HP, and easily upwards of ~350 HP.
I think if you read around, you'll also discover that 12% and 15% are the approx. drivetrain losses for M6's and A4's respectively.
So, on the lower end of the scale:
340 HP x 0.88 = 299.2 RWHP (M6, w/12% loss)
340 HP x 0.85 = 289.0 RWHP (A4, w/ 15% loss)
And on the slightly higher end of the scale:
350 HP x 0.88 = 308.0 RWHP (M6)
350 HP x 0.85 = 297.5 RWHP (A4)
For more ***** and giggles, let's assume that the factory isn't perfect, and they build some engines a little better, and others a little worse than "the norm". How much of a tolerance do you think they're within, 5% +/-??
Let's look at that, based on a 340 HP LS1 :340 HP - 5% = 323 HP x 0.88 = 284.24 RWHP (M6)
340 HP - 5% = 323 HP x 0.85 = 274.55 RWHP (A4)
340 HP + 5% = 357 HP x 0.88 = 314.16 RWHP (M6)
340 HP + 5% = 357 HP x 0.85 = 303.45 RWHP (A4)
NOW, let's for a moment, consider an '01/'02 SS/WS6, with the LS6 intake manifold, a FACTORY improved air intake, and FACTORY installed cat-back exhaust
. Can we "PLEASE" agree that that should free up the air flow to allow for a true 350 HP?? Ok, so at 350 HP, and on the GRAND end of the scale, our "factory ringer", making "5%" more than the next "average" engine ...
350 HP x 1.05 (5%) = 367.5 HP x 0.88 = 323.4 RWHP!! (M6)
350 HP x 1.05 (5%) = 367.5 HP x 0.85 = 312.4 RWHP (A4)
So overall, we've seen that an LS1 can dyno anywhere from ~275 - 323 RWHP.
CONCLUSION:
"Most" M6's will dyno ~300 - 308 RWHP, and "most" A4's will dyno ~290 - 298 RWHP
.Happy?
06-09-2008, 07:39 AM
#45
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lexington Park, MD
Posts: 139
I will say this. When a person in an LS1 car can drive the car, they put down pretty good numbers at the track. However, more often it seems than not, it isn't the case, anyways it hasn't been my experiences where I've been racing. (MIR, Gateway, E-Town, Orlando).
This is the case as well with many other types of cars too, LTx's included. Numbers multiplied in to equal what has been stated and shown on dynographs don't really give you the whole picture on what goes on during a dyno pull vice rowing through gears on the street/track. I wish I had my graph of my '95Z/M6 that just had a K&N replacement filter, flowmaster catback and fan switch, netted 273wrph/317rwtq, and the torque curver was insanely flat across the band. It didn't fall off quickly, or peak sharply and fall off down low.
The LS1's ability to breathe better, with a better ignition/spark system than the LT1, has you starting out with more power than with the LT1, let alone other factors. Much like how the LT1 bumped up performance levels achieved by the L98, the LS1 did the same. You will always have the die-hard faithful to their powerplant of choice, but looking at a factory performance level, the LS1 has the LT1 beat. By on average, a half second or quicker in the 1/4 mile.
This is the case as well with many other types of cars too, LTx's included. Numbers multiplied in to equal what has been stated and shown on dynographs don't really give you the whole picture on what goes on during a dyno pull vice rowing through gears on the street/track. I wish I had my graph of my '95Z/M6 that just had a K&N replacement filter, flowmaster catback and fan switch, netted 273wrph/317rwtq, and the torque curver was insanely flat across the band. It didn't fall off quickly, or peak sharply and fall off down low.
The LS1's ability to breathe better, with a better ignition/spark system than the LT1, has you starting out with more power than with the LT1, let alone other factors. Much like how the LT1 bumped up performance levels achieved by the L98, the LS1 did the same. You will always have the die-hard faithful to their powerplant of choice, but looking at a factory performance level, the LS1 has the LT1 beat. By on average, a half second or quicker in the 1/4 mile.