As mentioned an Aftercooler will be too restrictive with a YS. From several guys I heard who first ran the YS, anything over 15 psi on average ( for these cars)would show a big restriction with the aftercooler. I personally never ran that musch boost with mine, so this is just what I was told.

BUT

THis is totally wrong. I have yet to see any person who actually owns an aftercooler to say it does not work well when daily driving ect. There are plenty of production cars who use water to air. If these claims were true, none of the car companies would use water to air setups.

I used 50/50 mix of water and antifreeze and my IATs under full boost (11 psi) was a tad under 100 deegrees at WOT. I was hitting between 165-185 IAT temps before using the aftercooler at WOT.. I got amazing results.. This was recorded on an 85 degree day.. After running it hard for a few hours on the street, I never noticed over a 10 degree increase at WOT for my IAT's. the only "mod" I did with my aftercooler was to purchase a much bigger coolant pump because the stockers are junk

Also a huge myth is I hear people saying you have to have an ice box to get good results also with an aftercooler. Not true either.

 

THANK YOU!!!!! Finally someone said something in favor of the aftercooler...

WIll 15psi from a YS trim yield more power than 15psi with an S-trim???

 

First of all, I think people put too much faith in the stock IAT sensor. They are made to be accurate in the 10 - 120 degree range, so anything over 150 and they're inaccurate. For instance, at 14 psi non-I/C boost, my IAT readings are 170 F. However, some quick Thermo calc's yield a temperature of 220 F. If my T-trim were 100% efficient (actual is 70%), the temp would be closer to 170.

As to the air vs. water debate. If you weld on a piece of steel and you want to cool it quickly, do you wave it around in air or submerge it in water? Submerging in water cools it much quicker because water readily absorbs alot of heat (many, many thermodynamic constants affect this).

Another point that I think Highlander was trying to make is that the mass of water in the system acts as a heat sink. You add heat to the water while in boost, which increases the temperature of the water in the system. But, you only spend 10 - 15 seconds in boost at a time. In between full throttle runs, the water usually has several minutes to cool back down.

Another point I'd like to make is that the pressure drop across an intercooler is related to flow, not boost pressure. If you used the Vortech aftercooler on a 20 psi boost 4 cylinder, it would be fine. Since LJ is making 700+ hp, I'd say that the Vortech aftercooler is big enough for 700+ hp.

Highlander, I'm probably going to buy a Vortech aftercooler my self soon, so let us know what results you get.

Mike

 

I got it here but I am missing a tube and a bracket...

Thanks for replying... Nobody wants to do credit to the aftercooler...

 

I'd like to propose the following theory for someone to test:

The argument that I've read and heard a hundred times is that an intercooler or aftercooler only increases power because you can run more boost and timing. This makes sense at first glance since adding an intercooler apparently doesn't increase actual airflow through the engine, right?

I think not. If that were the case, you could get the same power gain of a $1500 cooler system simply by running 102 unleaded and raise the timing and/or boost. But this isn't the case. Us TIGHTWADS wouldn't be so lucky.

I think that intercoolers actually do increase total airflow through the engine, everything else being equal.

Intercooled intake manifold pressure is lower for three reasons:

1. Pressure drop through the intercooler due to restrictiveness.
2. Cooling air increases the density, thus decreases the pressure for the same volume. (Ideal Gas Law: PV = pRT)
3. A higher mass of cooler air can flow through the port and around the valve, so less mass of air remains in the intake - less pressure.

So, how do you get more airflow through the supercharger without increasing its speed?

Three main things determine the flow through a compressor: impeller speed, impeller diameter, and delta pressure across it. Let's assume the speed and diameter stay the same. Let's also assume that with a reasonably well designed intercooler will not restrict air flow significantly. That means that for reasons 2 and 3 above, adding an intercooler will DECREASE the pressure UPSTREAM of the intercooler. So, a lower discharger pressure at the supercharger will increase flow through it.

Everyone reports a loss of boost when they add an intercooler. But that's when it's measured in the intake manifold - after the intercooler. Everyone assumes that it's due to the restriction caused by the intercooler. I'm willing to bet if they put that pressure guage upstream of the intercooler, they will have lost boost there, too.

Anyone care to run this experiment?

It may change the way we think about intercooling.

Mike

 

If anyone doubts the performance of the Vortech aftercooler, have then check out LJ's websight (posted earlier in this thread):

S-trim - 7 / 2.75" 8 rib pulleys
Vortech aftercooler
23 degree heads
Relatively small hydraulic cam
Unleaded gas
Through the Cat converters

9.90's at 140 mph !!!

LJ is my hero.

Mike

 

Maybe I wasn't very clear; I have been and am still using the aftercooler for over two years. And on my last dyno run, I was using it as well to pull 600rwhp without even adding ice into my mustang ice tank. Further I was running this aftercooler with 10# of boost on a stock bottom end for 1.5 years previously without a problem and dyno tuned at 476rwhp. So definitely the aftercooler is great in comparison too nothing. LJ was also using this aftercooler on his S-trim to run in the 9s before.

I do like my aftercooler a lot especially since I installed it with the mustang ice tank, I can always throw in ice at the track and have the water ice cold at least for the one run and be way below ambient temperature.

My statement is in comparison between the aftercooler versus a big gigantic air-air intercooler like LJ for the YS trim. What I notice is the liquid in my aftercooler gets warm, much warmer than ambient air temperature. So IMO, the aftercooler without using ice will be using warm water to cool down the hot compressed air, while the intercooler will be using cold ambient air to cool down hot compressed air.

Another way to think about this is if you are not using ice, the best that an aftercooler can be is that it will be as good as an intercooler because first you have ambient air to cool the hot water and this water can not be cooler than ambient air. Then this water, which will be warmer than ambient air, will go to cool the hot compressed air. This is why I stated that IMO, if you are not using ice, then the intercooler is better, but when you are using ice than the aftercooler is better. Even if we keep in mind that water will transfer heat from the fin better than air, but the water is hotter than ambient air.

Still, Wish you luck with your setup and keep us updated . I would still recommend getting at least something like the mustang ice tank so if you ever want to, you can throw ice in and it also increase the total volume of the cooling water in your aftercooler system.

cheers

 

Depends on where the tank is routed, measure the water after the radiator and we are talking.... Have you measured the temp of the water with a thermometer?? Dont judge on feel, since water has a higher superficial are than air and makes the feeling of warmer or colder and it will also depend on where have your hands been in the last 15 minutes.. if you come out of a freezer you will feel the water very warm.

That is the same idea that put me to think when using water to cool my pc... The water gets warm to my touch.. I have measured its temp and its about the same as the ambient...

The other thing is: you cannot compare a gigantic intercooler with a smaller aftercooler... but still... water is still a better way to cool anything... That statement could be applied to engines... have you ever touched the water from the radiator??? that thing is boiling... yet it provides better cooling than ambient air..

 

The air after an intercooler will not probably be at ambient temp.

 

You would need an infinitely large air-to-air intercooler for the boosted, intercooled air to reach ambient air temp.

Also, because, mainly, of the density of water, even warm water will remove more heat from the air than ambient outside air. Think about this: if it's 40 degrees outside, would you rather walk on the sidewalk, or swim in a 40 degree pool? It would be much more comfortable in 40 degree air because 40 degree water removes much more heat from your 98 degree body.

Bottom line: water is a much better cooling media than air. Probably on the order of 100X better, but I haven't done the calc's to prove exactly how much better.

Mike