There's a company in Utah who has a new LT1 turbo kit that will be coming out in production soon. The only thing strange or unique about their setup is that the turbo itself is placed in the rear near the mufflers

Now I can see how that could be beneficial in a few aspects as far as installation, underhood temps, intake charge temps, etc....and apparently they have worked out any lag that you would assume would be part of the deal with turbo placement that far back.

Here's the thread in our local Fbody club: http://www.ufba.org/forum/index.php?...;threadid=3476

Any thoughts, opinions, etc....

 

sized correctly, it will work, but it will never be a killer, all out turbo setup. I suspect turbos big enough to get the car into the 11's or faster would end up with too much lag no matter what you did (possibly with killer, top of the line, bb turbos...).

do they give any indications where they run intake ducting? sucking air in from under the car is just bad (on a sunny day it will be 20-30* warmer then from in front), it will be exposed to water spray... and I don't know where you can run a fairly large pressure side tube that isn't going to be next to the exhaust (absorb heat from it) or cause ground clearance problems.

 

From what I gathered the intake could be mistaked for a CAI so I'm assuming that the intake piping is either in the stock location (or wheel well) or somewhere in the engine compartment.

I'm going to go down there this week and take a look at it.

Apparently they have taken a stock 95Z28 (low 15's@89-95 or so at our altitude) and installed nothing but the turbo and have run a 13.0 @111.

Before I read that post a friend of mine ran into that Camaro when he was out and about and I was shocked to hear the placement.

The ground clearance problem I was thinking about is the turbo itself....again I haven't seen it so I'll see if I can get some pictures of it this week, if not then I'll just have to describe the placement. The underside of an fbody is precarious enough as is not to mention having a turbo underneath that I would be afraid of tearing off if I hit a dip that I'm not expecting.

I agree that a turbo regardless of placement, length of piping, etc is going to improve performance and from what they say the results of the test on their stock Z28, it seems impressive....

Anyway.....I'll update as soon as I see it.

 

well, im definetly a skeptic of a rear mounted system.

but after reading the thread, the guy SEEMS to be on top of things, and knows what hes talking about.

my guess is that this will be a good system for a stock or moderately modified car, but probably will not be strong enough for a serious drag race application. which is fine, because most buyers are just looking for a bolt on solution like a supercharger.

 

I talked to the guy yesterday and I am significantly impressed. The Garrett factory guys came out to look at the set up and from what I understand they were impressed enough to want to offer this system through Garrett.

This setup represents a very novel step in turbo technology. Unless Ghost (you b@stard Dustin) gets first dips I am going to try to build a SIGNIFICANT setup with this company this fall.

A couple of other things about the system. There are no mufflers. That is where the turbo is mounted. Thus no ground clearance issues.

BBB

 

That guy does know his stuff. The only thing that I would have a problem with is matinence. Since most people who are adding turbos to their Camaros are trying to get lots of power, and this brings lots of rebuilds, and fixing things.
If the turbo is under your car at the rear, how the hell do u get at it without lots of trouble?
That would be my only gripe I think. Running a whole bunch of intercooling and intake plumbing would bea bitch too, but maybe he's got a soultion for that too. Sounds cool though.

Hunter

 

well i would think a turbo at the rear of the car would be MUCH easier to get to, rather than in the cramped fbody engine bay.



my question is how the hell does the turbo oiling system work?

 

That is exactly why I think it is a great idea. Where do you put a turbo in an F-body engine bay that 1500-2000 degrees is not going to do bad things to?

Also the long pressure tube acts like an intercooler (to a point).

As for oiling. Does the turbo care whether its oil line is 2 feet or 15 feet?

BBB

 

Oops ya I forgot we are talking bout the LT1 engine bay, I was thinking on my 68's engine bay where I got tons of room. Putting the turbo in the rear does sound like a good idea.

Also the long pressure pipe being an intercooler....that would be a great benefit I think, plus you could probably get the pressure pipe to have some fins on it to act like a heat sink to improve this even more.

Ya oiling might be a bit more involved, but it should be on turbo's. Maybe a seperate oil pump would be a good thing, plus some hard line. You could even do a seperate oil system for the turbo to keep it really happy, but that is a bit overkill.

For my car I have been throwing around the idea of ceramic coating the entire exhuast system to keep the exhuast hot and flowing fast, and on this application it would work great I think. Coating the entire exhaust pipe going to the turbo with either Jet Hot or something similar, even one of Swain's ceramic coatings would keep the exhuast velocity really high, and help witht the spool up and efficiency of the turbine. Of corse this is another overkill suggestion, but isn't that the definition of modding our cars anyway.

Hunter

 

I've done a lot of work with turbos, and I think that 'turbo at the back bumper' stuff is pretty half ***... 3 things to keep in mind, all else equal:

1. More exhaust volume before the turbo equals longer spool up time.

2. Colder exhaust temps equal slower spool.

3. Larger intake/ducting volume adds lag.

That's going to be one laggy, unresponsive, inefficient turbo setup...

 

Lets us put it simply this way. When it comes to this system you are wrong! You are thinking conventionally.

This system has already been proven on a BONE STOCK car. It dropped almost 2 1/2 seconds off its 1/4 mile time and added 14mph. It has been kicking butt on VERY put together cars already.

BBB

 

First, the guy doesn’t “really know what he’s doing” but is a good sales man. He actually gives 2 different descriptions for how something works in that one thread, both of them partially wrong.

He is correct that you can size the turbine side smaller and get good spooling, but the distance between the turbo and the engine will always cause lag, it’s just a matter of how small you’re willing to go to get rid of it. FWIW, he’s gone pretty small, which is why it’s working. I don’t know what turbo he’s using but I suspect that the whole combination wouldn’t work as well at sea level.

Oiling… that’s an interesting thing. The feed isn’t that big an issue, as long as he keeps it small enough that the stock oil pump can keep up with it. OTOH, the return would pretty much require it’s own pump mounted back by the turbo. If you’re going to run a pump back there anyway, I don’t think it would be a big deal to mount a little tank and build it’s own, dedicated oiling system. Another alternative would be to go with a turbo with a self contained oiling system, but I don’t know of any that would be large enough and they’re all super expensive.

I still think that the biggest problem in the long run will be the location… not a good place to cool things, water splashing will cause problems with both the air intake and the turbine housing (if it cools the turbo will work differently, if you really get it working and then splash it, it will crack).

All that being said, I’d still love to see the setup… any of you that have appointments to see the thing if you can (if he’s willing) try take some pics and post them here…

 

What I've said is 100% correct in every case... all else equal, longer exhaust and intake tracks and colder exhaust will make the system less effective - no ifs, ands, or buts. Here is something else you can take to the bank: a similar car with the turbo up front will wipe up the floor with that car and the turbo mounted where the muffler is.

 

The question I have, is why did he try it in the first place? I mean how did this idea come to him? Curious to see how he came to this choice.

Hunter

 

EddieP is right. Large intake and exhaust volumes between the turbo and engine will make lag a huge problem. But it sounds like the maker modified the turbine housing size (smaller) to compensate.

If he made the turbine housing undersized to make it spool up quicker, the exhaust flow through the turbine will be restricted. It works like this: If the turbine is small, spool up is quick, but backpressure is high. If the turbine is larger, spool up is slow, but backpressure stays lower.

So, the band-aid for slow spool-up will decrease power.


At a drag strip, turbo lag isn't usually an issue since the turbo stays spooled-up all the way down the strip. Turbo Buick guys have been installing huge turbo's on the little 3.8's for years because they perform well at the track, but street response gets really soggy. So, saying it's proven because of its track time doens't say anything about driveability or lag.

Mike