He is correct. There is no such thing as "free horsepower" that people assosciate with turbocharged setups. They're both great power-adders, but you must research to find out which one caters to your specific needs. A turbocharger does NOT necesarily make more peak horsepower than a supercharger, that depends on CFM and heads. I am by no means an expert on either system. Even though I run a blown setup, I am still learning many of the aspects of forced induction.

But I assure you- it is not as simple as it seems. Neither is "better" than the other, they both have different aspects and accomplish the same goal. I prefer a turbocharger, as most do, but there are some blower guys out there who prefer the benefits of a supercharged setup.

 

There is some useful information in this thread:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...5&pagenumber=1

 

TurboSpeed is back! And there are details of his kit. Sounds inexpensive (if you call $3500 inexpensive) for a turbo kit, but the downpipe doesn't sound real cool, it runs under the K-member???

Bill

 

he never left, he just doesnt' wanna have to deal with the haters.

the piping going into the turbo is under the k member, the down pipe is above.

 

You really should route that pipe a different way.

 

Sounds like a nice kit so far, for the price you really can't go wrong. Can't wait to see how it turns out and the final price with included hardware. I noticed he said he was using 4.10 gears, isn't that way to much gear? From what I was told a gear like that plus 6 speed will net very slow boost until there is enough load, is this correct?

 

I will add a comment to this that may or may not be correct. It should help us both out here. I have been reading up on FI setups for a while. I am a long way from ready for one, I still need a rear and a bottom end that will take the abuse.

I have been thinking turbo would be the way to go. I don't care about peak horsepower, I want a fast street car. Lets compare boost. If you run say, 8psi on both types of setups the turbo should be faster. You get a flat power curve that pulls 8 psi the whole time instead of building boost and reaching 8 psi at redline. This leads me to believe that it would be possible to run a lower boost turbo setup and still turn out the same track times as a sc setup. Now, I don't mean a lot lower boost, just a little. The lower boost should help make the internals last longer and still put out some good power. Did that make sense?

Guys, if I am way off here don't beat me up too bad. I am still reading, commenting, and learning.

The only three things that will turn me towards a sc is the fact that I will have a long drive ahead of me to get to a shop to do a dyno tune. (I will chance doing a sc tune myself after some pcmforless tuning since sc's are a little more predictable). I will have an easier time with a sc install. And of course, because the sc will be cheaper.

Good luck.

 

Even with lower boost... you will still get more boost than the s/c at lower rpm setup.. which means you will have more stress at lower rpms than with a s/c so you will tend to pre-ignite a bit more than with the s/c. When the engine is up to speed is a bit easier on the engine having such boost... Don't quote me on it, but it feels like it... ever done WOT in 6th gear??? have you seen knock?? I have, so its more or less the same thing.. The car will have a strong punch at lower speedswhich will require careful tunning...

Dont get me all wrong, but with the stock timing and 10.5:1 CR stock cam and that bunch of boost down low... you will have to be careful about tunning..

I prefer the supercharger for many more reasons... You can always strap in a YS-trim and have gobs of power.. 9.00@159mph sound fast? that is what that s/c is capable.. so its not like the s/c cant turn up times nor the mph, its just a matter of preference as said before...

I got tp to that bottom end.. I thought it was going to break a long time ago.. Ever heard of the horror stories about all the s/c installs? it will be the same thing... That doesn't mean ANYTHINg wrong about the kit.. it means the car was not designed for a Turbo system...

For 3500... the kit is not a bad choice.. but I do think you guys should consider the fact that the FMU and stock injectors is NOT a good idea... maybe you should invest in some tunning of some sort for an additional cost... Remember that stock injectors LOCK UP at higher fuel pressures...

 

I run stock lt1 injectors with my v6 with a FMU as well and it doesn't have any problems either. Speed eventually went with 30s. When he switched to 4.10s he didn't have spool problems, he just ran out of gear from what I understand. My v6 has 3.73s and I actually spool faster then my 3.23s because it gets into higher rpm faster... Load is always there.

 

I made 555rwhp... and with 55psi fuel pressure.. 50# inj are not enough.

 

Reasons I like turbos:
-I can make a 9 second pass and drive the car home that day mantaining 18MPG
-Car runs and sounds like a stock car with exhaust
-I can make the car run 12's-9's in a few seconds
-turbo's=torque=fun

Once you go turbo you never go back!

 

all that can be accomplished with s/c

 

-One that still gets 18mpg making 900hp, maybe possible but I have not seen one.
-Make the car run 12's-9's in seconds, Ok maybe ***** footin it. lets say this make the car run 12's-9's in seconds by adjusting boost
-Torque, well a turbo will always make more torque then a S/C. Had both, been in both, cant even compare.

 

Strap in a Twinscrew supercharger and you will get more or less the same feeling

How about nitrous...

I dont make near 900rwhp... in my wet dreams.. but see.... you MUST use an $8 a gallong fuel while I use one at $1.20 which means that to support 900rwhp and making 18mpg to equate the $ spent like me making a lot less mpg.

Its the same thing with the turbo though.. you put the boost down, but so can happen... making 9s in a supercharged or Turbocharged car will require race gas, unless you have a 9L engine.

What Im trying to say is that its the same thing... but I bet you one thing... and one thing only... If I find you on the street.. with street tires (you and I) and on pump gas both of us... I bet I can beat you easily... why? because at that level of power.. instant boost is a BAAD Thing and that happenned to me against a 340rwhp z06... I got too greddy and got my A$$ handed to me...

Again.. personal preference

 

First...

1) I get no lag... racing against many turbo cars I feel that the lag is an issue.. I've never run against a turbo v8 though.... but many other turbo cars including 10s rx7s and such...

2) with HiPo Turbos you need GREAT exhaust, If the exhaust maxes out you start loosing power up top even worse than a supercharged car, like the feeling of the nitrous bottle cooling down. That in turns makes the car significantly louder than a supercharged car...

3) Cost: my cost of my used system with intercooler was 2200 bucks... Let me know when I can find a used kit of turbos for that same price

4) tunning... I have found that is a lot easier to tune a supercharged car (even with a fast system) than it is a turbo car.. I have tuned a few 4 cylinders with turbo and such and its a bit more challenging than the s/c.. The s/c is more predictable in its power curve, behavior and such, even superchargers that give you full boost at lower rpms... I find that you really need a FAST system with a turbo car, you cant tune around the stock pcm.. its just not cut out for it... Unless someone dares to change the code and add a few tables to the calibration to accept a 2 bar map sensor and control wastegates and other goodies as the syclones and such... Which adds again to the cost of the system

5) Heat... Turbos produce a LOT of heat inside the engine bay and a lot of that has to be accounted for when dealing with it... its advisable to have everything with a good ceramic coating, which adds to overall costs...

6) traction: since my car is a street car and not a strip car I use it only on the street with 1-2 dragstrip visits a year, so lots or gobs of boost down low means no traction in many gears...

7) installation: its a lot easier to install.. less parts and a lot less things that can go wrong preventing for the system to work correctly... parts are more expensive for turbo cars than for supercharged cars..

8) availability... Since there are not many kits available or one that is supported by a big company, everything is custom made and taylord made, which adds to the cost and adds to the hassle and such... Since our cars dont have that aftermarket support as the *** cars for turbo systems its a bit difficult...

9) fuel consumption? debatable...

10) Efficiency and heat contamination: At least in centrifugal S/C, they tend to be a tad more efficient. and the s/c doesn't heat up the air due to exhaust turbine temp, which necesarily NEEDS an intercooler vs the supercharger where in moderate boost levels you dont, although its advisable.. which adds to the cost of the system...


In the end there is always someone faster than you wether it is turbo or supercharged.. which means: as said by Richard Krause on one of my posts... We are not competing for ET/total HP, so what if you have to have more power to make the time or make more boost to make the ET/mph... if in the end its cheaper its not a bad way to go.. So if the supercharger makes the car enjoyable for longer periods of time than the turbo (downtime due to availability etc) its still a good way to go. the street is not a contest of who did it for the less ammount of $ or who did it with the less total hp or anything similar..If in the moment you are in one and you need to extract the LAST ammount of power, maybe the less parasitic % loss and the more torque down low would be the edge to win where classes are defined for the two systems to compete against each other.

Sleeper.. your car is awesome.. wicked and a dream to many people ... but given the ammount of $ you have invested in your car I CAN make a faster car with a supercharger be it with more boost or whatever... there is a supercharger size for every need of HP.