Forced Induction Supercharger/Turbocharger

sts vs. prochager

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Old Jun 11, 2005 | 06:16 AM
  #76  
LittleRedZ's Avatar
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Re: sts vs. prochager

Originally Posted by CJ
all the way down to the stock stamped rockers.

My next setup should be ready in about a month is going to have a fully forged bottom end with AFR190s, D1 with a lot more boost. My luck it will be slower.
i put down about 650rwhp with my combo, i dont think cubic inches matter here with boost though , cuz i wish i went the 355 route.
anyway good luck, i'll be spraying mine this summer, going to start off at 100 and go up from there
Old Jun 11, 2005 | 01:22 PM
  #77  
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Re: sts vs. prochager

Originally Posted by 97WS6SCharged
Did Sharmand tell you about the award he got at G9?
Heh, no. It must have been a good one.


Originally Posted by LittleRedZ
i put down about 650rwhp with my combo, i dont think cubic inches matter here with boost though , cuz i wish i went the 355 route.
anyway good luck, i'll be spraying mine this summer, going to start off at 100 and go up from there
Yeah, I stuck with the 355. Im just going to run as much boost as the D1 will put out and go from there. Youll have fun with the nitrous. My car made 635rwhp with the 100shot, just didnt get any track times with it.
Old Jun 11, 2005 | 02:36 PM
  #78  
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Re: sts vs. prochager

Originally Posted by CJ
Heh, no. It must have been a good one.




Yeah, I stuck with the 355. Im just going to run as much boost as the D1 will put out and go from there. Youll have fun with the nitrous. My car made 635rwhp with the 100shot, just didnt get any track times with it.
so you picked up 100 rwhp from 100 shot?
Being stuck with a 355 i would not actually consider a bad thing, boosted 355s make great power, i just wish i didnt waste my money on the strocker build, because i dont think i see any gains with 383 over 355, but then again i dont know since never had this combo on 355. My 7.25 lower pulley and 3.4 upeer makes around 18#s i think i could step up to a 3.2 upper and max the blower out at around 20#s, but i decided to just spray the way instead
Old Jun 11, 2005 | 03:18 PM
  #79  
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Re: sts vs. prochager

True, that is easily upgradable.
Old Jun 12, 2005 | 04:34 PM
  #80  
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CJ
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Re: sts vs. prochager

Originally Posted by LittleRedZ
so you picked up 100 rwhp from 100 shot?
Yeah, I think some of the gain was from the nitrous cooling the intake charge much better than the small 2core intercooler that i was using. My air temps would drop from ~160 to ~80 with the nitrous. I think I have the 3.4 pulley also. I was going to try the 3.2 but it would slightly go over the blower redline. I may try it anyways depending on how much boost I get out of the 3.4 pulley
Old Jun 12, 2005 | 08:52 PM
  #81  
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Re: sts vs. prochager

Originally Posted by NYSS Guy
Have you seen the GTO's running 10's?? I'm working through some issues with mine, but I figure to be well into the 11's with mine, very soon. I ran a 12.2@116 last time out, with a 1.9x 60' time. If I can figure out how to cut a 1.5 or 1.6 60', I'll already be in the 11's, and that's before I solve any real issues!! When I get my combo figured out, low 11's should be do-able.

By the way, if you're definitely going FI, be careful with a high mileage motor!!
you should be running 11's right now without a problem.
I have a friend in a 01 formula w/cutout/gears/stall/lid/subframe connectors and he ran 12.2 3times in a row a few weeks ago. No boost, stock cam,manifolds and heads.

You are making plentypower as you are trapping 116.
Work on those 60's and you will see 11's.
Good luck!

I have not heard anybad many bad things about the STS kit. Im thinking of buying a kit next year my self.

Last edited by robb4964; Jun 12, 2005 at 09:04 PM.
Old Jun 12, 2005 | 09:16 PM
  #82  
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Re: sts vs. prochager

As for boost falling off at high rpms, it will happen with the 60-1 at around 500rwhp after the 5000rpm range. Here is the dyno when we pushed the 60-1 to see what it had at 14psi.
STS 60-1 355
Old Jun 12, 2005 | 09:17 PM
  #83  
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Re: sts vs. prochager

Originally Posted by RealQuick
Remember, a supercharged engine needs to make more flywheel hp to make the same rwhp as a turbo engine due to the SC robbing engine hp. Here is an example with madeup #'s:

In order to make 450rwhp...

S/C engine needs to make 550 flywheel hp
Turbo engine needs to make 500flywheel hp

This is an example to show how much harder the engine needs to work to produce the same rwhp. I would guess the 550hp motor would blow up before the 500hp motor given equal conditions/tune.



Base on the info i showed you, it shows that a rear mount turbo with similar compressor size when compared to the S/C should make more rwhp at a given psi.
You are correct!!!!
Turbo's are better at making power, period.
Like you said, superchargers take it to make it. Making power more efficiently will= longer engine life and better gas milage with the same rear wheel HP.

Last edited by robb4964; Jun 15, 2005 at 08:07 AM.
Old Jun 12, 2005 | 10:24 PM
  #84  
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Re: sts vs. prochager

Hey robb, I agree with you, 11's should be pretty easy, even with the issues I'm having. I only got one run in with the setup that night, but I'll be going again real soon.

Luke, looking at your graph, I can see it falling off, but my drop off seems to be way more drastic. I think a combination of the small turbo, and the stock valve springs are what is hurting me. We will see.
Old Jun 14, 2005 | 05:11 PM
  #85  
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Re: sts vs. prochager

I love all STS haters on this board. Cracks me up. I'm guessing that most of the haters haven't realized that most of the people running these cars aren't drag racers. That equals out to them sucking at driving. Most of the cars are also 6 spd. non driving fool + 6 spd + turbo = crap et and so so mph.

I'm still learning how to drive my car and cut my first ever 2.0 60's last thursday night on an un prepped track in my 6spd car.

I managed a 11.7 @ 124, boost was 10-13 (only saw 13 in 4th gear due to maxing out the waste gate spring). Motor is stock bottom end but has a 224/224/112 .567 cam in it. Track is 2200' and the DA that night was around 4600' Subtract about .4-5 in et and add 4-5 mph for a sea level time.

For reference, a stock LS1 here is a low 14 sec car @ 100 mph.

I was running 60% 100 octand and 40% 91 octane (FULL tank of gas). I also use a 50/50 mix of water and meth to help cool everything down and have a front mount i/c as well.

When my car dyno'd 507 SAE corrected it was only 460 uncorrected.

Most of these people who are putting turbo kit's on their cars don't have them tuned properly, mine is tuned very good.

Don't forget that on a 6spd car that the 60' drastically affects mph vs a n/a car. The better the 60' the higher the mph do the inability to leave on boost.

In the same night I went from running 12.8-13.0 @ 119-121 on 2.2-2.4 60's to 11.7-11.8 @ 123-124 mph by just gettin the 60' down to a 2.0.

Last edited by ZombieSS; Jun 14, 2005 at 05:14 PM.
Old Jun 14, 2005 | 11:37 PM
  #86  
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Re: sts vs. prochager

Originally Posted by ZombieSS
The better the 60' the higher the mph do the inability to leave on boost.
Who says you can't leave under boost? Ever heard of a 2-step?
Old Jun 18, 2005 | 10:07 PM
  #87  
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Re: sts vs. prochager

Good point ZombieSS, and nice numbers!
BTW I will post some 2 step action when I have a rear that can handle it I am seeing about 3# of boost with the soft rev (2 step) set at 3000rpms.
Old Jun 19, 2005 | 03:38 PM
  #88  
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Re: sts vs. prochager

Originally Posted by nojdrof
If you can wait a week or two I will give you some good advise on what a STS system can do. I'm currenlty taking my blower off my car and will be installing a STS system. I'm using a GT70 turbo and STS's meth injection. I will dyno the car to compare the number to my blower setup and I will also run the car to see if I can improve my 1/4 mile performance. We plan on starting the project on Monday the 13th. I'll keep you posted.

Jon
Thought I'd give you all an update on my car. We started on it on Tuesday as of Friday the old engine was out and we're starting to swap parts off the original engine to the new short block. I'm most likely going to use my stock heads and will most likely change them out later. I have a set of ported heads right now but they have a small combustion chamber (61.4cc) which will bring my CR to high for the amount of boost I want to run. We're shooting for Tuesday to have the car done and I'll try to have all the tuning done by the end of this week. Next week I'll head to Denver (Dyno Pro) and dyno the car on a Dyno Jet dyno. With my old system it made 491rwhp/453rwtq running rich. Using the same heads I'll re-dyno the car to see the difference between the blower and the STS Turbo. I'm currently looking for a great set of large chamber heads and an air to water intercooler which I will add later to see how much more I can pick up.

Thanks guys I hope this info helps and will soon answer allot of question.

Jon
Old Jun 19, 2005 | 11:59 PM
  #89  
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Re: sts vs. prochager

Originally Posted by nojdrof
Thought I'd give you all an update on my car. We started on it on Tuesday as of Friday the old engine was out and we're starting to swap parts off the original engine to the new short block. I'm most likely going to use my stock heads and will most likely change them out later. I have a set of ported heads right now but they have a small combustion chamber (61.4cc) which will bring my CR to high for the amount of boost I want to run. We're shooting for Tuesday to have the car done and I'll try to have all the tuning done by the end of this week. Next week I'll head to Denver (Dyno Pro) and dyno the car on a Dyno Jet dyno. With my old system it made 491rwhp/453rwtq running rich. Using the same heads I'll re-dyno the car to see the difference between the blower and the STS Turbo. I'm currently looking for a great set of large chamber heads and an air to water intercooler which I will add later to see how much more I can pick up.

Thanks guys I hope this info helps and will soon answer allot of question.

Jon
Let me know when you take it back to bandimere, I'd like to see if you improve on your 12.5 @ 108 time (with the blower)..... I have no doubt that your dyno numbers will be higher with the turbo setup, especially the peak numbers. Also, you might want to consider the uncorrected dyno numbers for your turbo setup, as the correction factor is geared towards normally aspirated cars (and supercharged cars that lose power just like NA cars). Ask Bear if he can give you a printout of the uncorrected numbers as well. Good luck with it.

Last edited by 5.0THIS; Jun 20, 2005 at 12:01 AM.
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