I made over 500 rwhp with a procharger (P600B) and twin air coolers running at around 10-11 psi, 355 LT1. The blower whine got to me after a few years and I switched over to Vortech. The V2 and the aftercooler seemed to make more torque thoughout the rpm range. I still have the procharger stuff sitting around.


If you go turbo, I would get the PTK. I tried to get a kit from them a few years back, but they would not sell it to me at that time.

 

Okay, I guess I went a little off topic in my last post. I won't continue to argue about how the STS kit makes power.

As far as which is better, I think it really depends on the person. But if you go STS, be prepared to be bashed every time you post the progress you've made. It is absolutely true that the Procharger makes power. So if you want the sure thing, go Procharger. If you like to experiment a little, and try to prove the masses wrong, then go STS.

 

Can anyone tell me a bone stock(no headers, etc..) LS1 with a Procharger should run in the quarter? And what kind of rwhp?

 

I didnt skip over it. I have not seen a comparable setup to littleredz's setup with an LT1 sts kit. If you want to get technical, then read up on Brent's GTO with ported factory heads, baby turbo cam, forged bottom auto tranny, stall and tire run mid 10's @ 130mph on the first shakedown run. Oh, thats with 12psi as well. He made just shy of 600rwhp and just shy of 700rwtq, and thats moving pretty good for an auto that weighs in at 4000lbs. There is another LS1, fbody though, that traps 121mph on 5psi with stock motor. He's on ls1tech and goes by something like "your03cobrateme". I am waiting to see a fully forged 383, fully ported heads, and turbo cam'd LT1 run anything bigger than a 60-1 turbo (which will make a little less power than a P1 or S trim). If you want to compare to a D1/T timr you atleast should step up to a T70 turbo...

 

i dont understand all the flames...post pro's cons... fine...the sts kit is relatively affordable....setup right, its a option other than the typical route.why not just keep it to that and peoples experiences rather than roasting one another..i have a p600b .doesnt mean its right for everyone..these days, its not right for anyone lol.....if people want to get that sts kit more power to em. im sure we'll get more info about how they are..the more people use them...the kit hasnt been out that long..has it?

 

Has anyone ran 8psi intercooled on their stock motors with high miles?
How dikd it treat you? I think I would be good with 6psi intercooled from the prochager on a 95,xxx mile motor. Also does anyone know what octane was ran on any of the test at any of the sites?

Thanks.

 

Actually, I do have some inside knowledge on the car and what all actually went into it. Let's not forget that the car ran 12.2s with some bolt ons and the stock converter. So what does it run now? 11.6 or something? It now has a new converter, and gears, and let's not forget that it is a full bolt on car with full exhaust, lid, that it's a stripper hardtop car. I'm not positive, but the car may also have an LS6 intake and ported throttle body on it at this point. If the car was running 12.2s with the stock converter, then the converter is probably what.... 2-3 tenths by itself? Most guys that get converters say they're worth as much as a half a second with gears..... That STS kit didnt even get them a half a second ET improvement. And let's also not forget that before the converter, just after simply bolting on the STS kit, the car actually ran slower ETs if I remember correctly, with 4 more mph through the traps. BTW, none of this is anything I got off the internet, it's from folks who know the car and have seen it first hand.....

LMAO at this part... Once again, the typical STS nutswinger counter-arguement.. The only thing you can say to defend the STS kit in this instance is that those numbers from that PTK car must not be true... they just cant be!!!!!!!! Jose blatantly lied, and has always lied!!!! IN an effort to destroy the credibility of STS!!!! muahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!

And once again, here you are, with absolutely nothing valid to say!!! Why must you follow me around in every STS post. I'm within my right to post my opinion, but not of course without hearing from you why I'm wrong. Quit crying, and if you want to continue to be the head STS nutswinger, by all means, go ahead and knock yourself out!

And oh... what's this.....

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332601

Ouch.... Quote from STS people: "Oh, water will never get into the filter!!!!... I know Mine is always dry!"

 

But that example is way out of whack. The Supercharger puts more load on the snout of the crank, but the turbocharger puts a much larger load on the bottom end during the exhaust stroke, as well as the exhaust valves and heads. The backpressure in the exhaust system on a turbo is no laughing matter. There is power lost either way - its just a matter of where and how much. Usually superchargers are less efficient, but it depends on the builds and the limits with what you can do with the motor. My engine has some really beefy parts in the head to take the additional heat and pressure from the turbo system. Some people dont have that. Necessary? No. But a good idea! Just like 4 bolt mains are a good idea.

Also there are several STS cars I dont think fit the "norm" here like that GTO. Firstly, dont forget it's spooling on the launch and has a load of hard work into it. It performs wonderfully - but those results arent to be expected of typical STS installs. The guys there have done AWESOME stuff with rear mounts, and I intend to head on out that way this summer to see their work if I can spare the time. Dont forget, they were getting results with STS kits that the STS guys couldnt get at the time . The guys there know those things well and are pushing them to the limit. I expect they'll show us what STS can really do before anyone else does.

Tuning any turbocharged engine is going to be harder, it isnt boost as a function of rpm. Boost is a function of rpm and load. This makes things harder to work with as our ECU's are not meant to read boost. For that reason, the Procharger wins the debate.

On this procharger vs sts debate, both have different results, similar power outputs, and different SOTP and sound. Blower whine rocks, as does a turbo spool and a blow off valve. I dont like the exhaust tone of STS myself, but hey. It depends what you want out of the car!!! Both are very similar. Reliability? Thats a mixed bag. LS1's handle it better, but they're still not built for boost. Adding boost to a motor not meant to handle it is never a good idea.

Turbos are like god smacking the car with a baseball bat really hard and watching it fly. Superchargers are like god pushing the car faster and faster and faster. Power gaining through the band or suddenly like a bolt of thunder? Your pick. I went with a turbo system over a supercharger because I wanted it silent at idle and low rpm and I wanted that sudden *BAM* at spool.

You'll be happy either way I bet. And guys? Stop the flame wars. Really. Take it to PMs or something. Keep it cool and calm please. We all know that there are better setups than a procharged lt1 or an sts lt1.

...Like a fully built twin turbo LS7 with nitrous.

 

Post some of the inside stuff then. Lets hear the secrets then. Its funny, Angie had problems to work out, I believe it was a bad tranny off the top of my head, then the car ran fine. She ran a low 11 with traction. Let me ask you this FI guru, what would a procharger at only 5 psi allow Angie to run. Would she have beat the low 11 and got a high 10 with 5 psi and stock motor? I doubt it.

Actually, its funny because your a PTK nut swinger. Jose posts ONE example and your all over it. You preach PTK to everbody, even if thats NOT WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR. Your looking like Tarzan with all the swinging your doing.


This was the first case I had heard of, and the guy was either driving thru puddles that are 10" deep or he is probably a PTK nut swinger like yourself, just posting to stir **** up.

 

Actually, the example I give is a fairly common and proven concept. I made up the numbers, but nothing "whack" about it. A supercharger takes alot of hp to drive. In my internal combustion engines class we calculated the loss of a supercharged jaguar (back in 2002) ans the blower robbed the engine of 40hp (I beileve the flywheel rating was 360ish hp). Thats a decent amount for a small blower. Numbers I have heard thrown around online is that the blower loss can be up to 10%. So if you are making 800hp at the flywheel, the blower is using ~89hp (800hp/.90). I will try to find the example of the blower loss problem. It was on a final exam, but he explained it after the test.


Actually, this should be the norm for auto sts cars with a gear, stall, and tire. Very easy to load the car. They havent done anything special really. Remember, it was originally slowhawk that did the install and tune when he was running mid 10's on stock heads and stock bottom end. Then Cartek added meth kit and different tune, and it happened to blow the motor up shortly after.

I agree

You done milking your PTK install Lets get some progress reports...

 

If you can wait a week or two I will give you some good advise on what a STS system can do. I'm currenlty taking my blower off my car and will be installing a STS system. I'm using a GT70 turbo and STS's meth injection. I will dyno the car to compare the number to my blower setup and I will also run the car to see if I can improve my 1/4 mile performance. We plan on starting the project on Monday the 13th. I'll keep you posted.

Jon

 

Now this is interesting. This post fits exactly what this thread is about. Definitely keep us posted on your progress. Any reason why you went with the meth instead of a FMIC?

 

Jon, let me use you as an example here. I am not dissing you, but rather using your numbers in your sig. Did you only trap that much mph with the dyno numbers in your sig?

 

That's a decently efficient supercharger. Some are even less efficient than that! BUT the reason I say its out of whack is there are losses on a turbo system that arent mentioned. Also saying they make different flywheel numbers isnt quite the best way to describe it. Because if there was 450hp at your flywheel and 400hp at another one, and you attached the same mechanical linkages (transmission and such) to them, why are the rwhp numbers different? Doesnt quite make sense. I just want to be sure people realize that turbos arent "Free" power, because a lot of people spout off that they are.

Slowhawk from everything I've read has been working and tweaking his customers STS systems. With a stall, gear, tune, etc I dont doubt that people will get towards his results - but from everything I've seen his results for some reason are a little bit better than everyone else. It wasnt STS who nearly had me sold, it was going over and reading his posts that did. He's very good at getting the most power out of these things, just like there are better tuners out there. Nothing suprising actually. If you go to the best installer and the best tune, you're going to get better results.

 

I guess it I didn’t get the point across correctly in my example. Perhaps I should have said something like more boost is needed to produce the same flywheel hp in a S/C application versus a turbo application with equally efficient, equally sized, etc. compressors.

I have been over Don’s house (where he does all is installs) a few times. He is cool and there are some cool ls1tech members that hang there every weekend. I thought you speaking about Cartek in the previous post, that’s why I mentioned Slowhawk. Just trying to give credit to the right people.