Uuuhhh.. no. Ever since I read your assinine post about how you think a 400rwhp NA car could take out a 400rwhp FI car Ive taken everything youve posted in this thread with a grain of salt, and will continue to do so.

Hence "dipstick".... hey.. were on a car related board. At least it fits, right?

 

1) F8L - your dyno shows spool after 4000rpm. That is extremely high for a single turbo v8, 5.3L or 5.7L or 4.6L. It's just a late spooling turbo. Not that that's bad for you, and your truck must be retardedly fast for what it is, but it's just a VERY late spool....

2) Take a 400rwhp Turbo Supra against a 400rwhp N/A LS1 and see who's faster. Or take a 400AWHP DSM against a 400rwhp lt1. There are many things to remember, including car, driver, other mods. Depending on other mods, length of track/race, a 400rwhp N/A car very well might maul a 400rwhp turbo car. Dont forget you're not always looking at the matching Tq. A 396 lt1 N/A putting out only 400rwhp is going to have heaping loads of tq long before an sts turbo is thinking of spooling. Most likely if both cars have good traction in a 1/4 race, the sts would loose. But again, that's apples to oranges. Two 350cid lt1's, one with heads, cam and all the toys vs one with an sts kit, both putting 400rwhp, it will depend on driver and other mods. Both will have similar power under the curve. However the N/A car will have less exhaust restriction on the bottom revs, and will probably make more power there.

Also I think saying "this is a turbo on a stock car" is a load on anyone's part. If a car has a set of pulleys a 52mm TB or a 160thermostat, it isnt stock anymore. Most likely you will not find a car putting on a turbo and have no other mods. You'd be beyond silly to do so. But similar PSI...

 

We have had our dyno and track numbers up for a while, full boost and torque just above 3k. Didnt make it to the track on higher than 5psi with tuning before pulling the motor for a forged bottom, but if it was cranked up to 8-10psi it would of put down some numbers too. I would like to see some ptk dynos at the same psi. I have nothing against the kit. It looks like a well put together kit, but all this talk about spool up without comparable fbody dynos.

 

I hear what you are saying mate. Only we had to start the dyno way high because my truck was setup to wind the hell out of 2nd gear (31" tall tires and 95mph 2nd -3rd gear shift) and we were having trouble keeping it from downshifting into 2nd on the dyno. On the street I would see full boost about 3500rpm or so which is about where my stall is at now (the TT3000 was build when my truck was stock). The GT35 spooled extremely fast but I felt it lacked top end so I went with the GT67 which is lag central with this little motor but great mid and top end..

Thx for the clarifications. I'll see how this kit works when I put the 6.0L in. Hopefully it will be back in the 3000rpm range for max spool.

So what is the average spool rpm for a 5.7L LS1 style motor on a front mount system?

 

This thread has to be the biggest pissing match ever, which is great because I need a good laugh now and then. Here's my opinion on the matter. The STS kit was designed as an entry-level kit with easy installation, moderate power gains, and a decent price as it's selling points. Of course it has it's shortcomings, but that's the tradeoff for the ease of installation. Some people just aren't interested in 700 horsepower street cars, so they see no reason to get the best and probably more expensive kits out there. If you have the money and want to go really fast with room to grow, then by all means get a front mounted setup. However, if you're on a budget and not all that mechanically inclined but want to have some fun, then the STS kit should make you happy. Granted you may have a peakier setup with the STS , but that's part of the tradeoff I mentioned earlier. Track and dyno numbers don't mean everything to all F-body owners. Many of us just want a fun car that we can drive anywhere with a decent amount of power. I personally wouldn't give a s**t if I put an STS kit on my car and ran the same times. If it felt faster(which I'm sure it would) and put a smile on my face then that would be good enough for me.

 

1000rpm?? Try looking at some dyno sheets...I know you said you have, but your comment about N/A has more area under the curve than STS is absurd. Most of the STS kits on 5psi make well over 400rwtq from 3500+rpm. That is undeniable and should show significant gains at the track. Funny nobody mentioned the guy that ran his 408 LS1 with STOCK HEADS, NO TUNING, AUTO TRANNY and STOCK gears and ran 99mph in the 1/8 leaving at idle with 7psi and a T-70 turbo. I guess he is the exception to the rule of putting down decent numbers Dont forget, its only a forged 408...the rest of his components I mentioned above are stock. Tuning plays a big role. The LT1 that put down 105mph 1/8th was tuned for it and running 10psi? I'd say 99mph with no tuning and 7psi is pretty damn good. But hey, it goes against physics right...

 

Not to get this thread sidetracked, but RealQuick , you can't compare the PTK kit stock motor LT1 vs the 408 LS1 with the STS system. First, the LT1 was a stock motor, its only 350ci motor, the heads only flow 195 cfm in stock form and the LT1 cam is much smaller then even a stock LS1 cam. Slap a set of LT4 heads (~the same flow as a stock LS1 head) on the LT1 and a cam of equivalent lift and duration and 105mph maybe could have been done with the PT66, 8psi and who knows what with the T70. Heck, stock LS1 heads flow 240cfm, with 408ci and a T70, even if the launch is slow, the mph should still be there. BTW, the PTK car did 102.4 with a smaller pt66 and 8psi. To me the 408 has some hp missing. Even tuning the LT1 car only picked up 20rwhp....thats not but maybe 1mph in the 1/8th at best. Either way their is no real comparison.

Jose

 

Jose, keep working on the LS1 Truck kit and make it a fair price and I'll do a nice little comparo

 

I installed the kit on the 408 car. That car has alot more in it with a few tweaks. To me, the biggest problem is launching off idle, no stall, 18 in tires.
Also, that car as well as others spends 99.9% of the time driving on the street. Being a few tenths off at the drag strip is not that big of a deal. He is not building a race car, just something different and fun. He had dual stage nitrous on it before and now he likes the car better with the turbo. That is all that really matters. That said, I bet he can trap over 125 in the 1/4 just as it sits. We should know this weekend.

 

You're extremely ignorant. Plain and simple. 400 rwhp, 600 rwhp, etc supras run that way BECAUSE THEY CAN"T HOOK UP WITH THEIR IRS. How friggin retarded are you? Me thinks you've got a bad case of the turbo envy.

 

I never said a 400rwhp NA could beat a 400rwhp FI car ( meaning front mount turbo, supercharger, etc) I said a 400rwhp NA car might just beat a 400rwhp STS car, and apparently I'm not the only one that thinks so. Read chadwick's posts, he brings up good points and is more civilized than me in doing so


Funny, I've seen plenty of supras hook up just fine. The problem there is that they see such little time in boost per gear (tiny motor, huge turbo, late spool), and when they do finally hit power in each gear, when you go from 200rwhp to 600rwhp in a matter of a few hundred rpm traction becomes a huge issue. This is what info I gathered from a quick supra guy here in Colorado. Thanks for the "ignorant" comment BTW. You STS lovers getting so bent out of shape makes my day, and always gives me a good laugh

 

What fun, this kit is how old and still the same old arguements. Here is a post I made on ls1.com in the lt1 tech section....

Here's the link... http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535213

Here is my quote(of course, notice who I am argeuing with.




They do have late spooling, but a big turbo on an lt1/ls1 mounted up front will have late spooling also. Don't belive me, look at this...

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227867

Not knowing everything about a turbos I have to go to the advice of two of my close friends who know more than most. With the right turbo, it can be fully spooled by 3500(which isn't bad!!!!) and still make 600+rwhp, both on a conventional setup and a rear mount setup on pump gas(with the use of water injection though, which I think is fine, see below).

Honestly, I'd never drop the cash to buy their kit, but building my own I might do. With the help of two friends, lots of hours of mathetical equations and simulations, I do believe I could build that kit for fairly cheap and have it perform well(not just dyno, but at the track). To me dyno #'s mean jack squat, timeslips are what are important, especially et's. A forged 355 with the proper turbo setup(choosen by myself and my two friends), water injection, 3600 stall, having it fully spool by ~3500rpms(no lag!!!), use of a 2 step to build ~5-8lbs of boost on the line, and with my supporting mods I have now, I don't think I'd have any problem making a 10 sec pass. I'm actually considering selling my forged 383 that I was going to spray to build my own rear mount turbo setup. The 383 was giong to be set up to run a high 10 on drag radials on the bottle, which it should do, even at our sh*tty track.

I have yet to see an STS car thats set up for drag racing. With a 2 step, right gears/tires/suspension/supporting mods/driver who can drive/correct turbo, I do believe a 10 second pass would be easy with this setup. Yes the 2jz's take forever to spool, but when set up correctly they run GOOD et's and mph's. Too many people never take the time to set the car up correctly though. My friend has a a 93.5 with a 76 trim, built auto with 4400, suporting mods and a 100 shot of juice running 10.003 at 140mph with a 1.6x 60ft. Got another friend who with almost the same setup cept a slightly bigger turbo and no nitrous, and he's a 6 speed, just ran 10.002 at 138mph with a 1.5x 60ft. Their dyno charts look horrible, they don't spool until 5000+ rpms, but with the right setup they don't have that bad of lag. These are both killer street cars.

Water/methonal injection isn't a bad thing. The turbo buick guys set the road for this type of injection, which is now used by many FI guys now to keep them from having to run higher octane when they want to run more aggressive timing. The dsm guys really love the water injection so they don't have to run race fuel but can still run agressive timing. This setup is great for street cars because you don't have to run race fuel all the time, but can still run your race "tune".

Interferring with the subframes does suck for people who have them, but I have a local guy who builds custom subframes and it will clear them, so that doesn't bother me any.

A lot of front mount turbo's on imports are located very close to the ground. I don't think it will be hurt sitting where it is, so the lifespan should be fine with it, IMO. A few quick spot welds and nobody will be able to steal it either.

I've never seen their kit in person, who I can't comment on the quality. Although that doesn't matter to me since I'd build the kit myself.

I get tired of people saying it won't work just because nobody has the correct setup yet. It's like having a ported heads/big cam car with stock tires, 2.73's, stock stall, no tuning, no headers, and no cai. When it runs bad times you can't blame it on bad heads/cam.

Honestly, the last week or so I have been talking a lot with my friends and we are considering building a kit. I don't know if I want to part with my forged 383/nitrous setup though.(especially since its not even broke in yet) I'm not saying we are going to do it yet, but I'd love to prove all the people wrong that say it won't work. For some reason I get great satisfaction proving people wrong on what they are positive they know. When I first did my setup thats in my sig, nobody local believed it would run a deep 12 at our sh*tty track, but I proved them all wrong, and proved them very wrong when it went consistent 11.80's before I got it all dialed in.

My hardest part of the entire setup would be tuning the car. This is what I'm trying to figure out right now because I don't want to have to go to fast or dfi.

Another BIG advantage when street racing(yes I do that, but I also run at the track), is when racing from a roll a turbo car can "brake boost", thus giving them an advantage as soon as the race starts. Not a lot of turbo guys know about this concept, but those who do use it and it drastically changes the results of a race with a brake boost vs no brake boost. I still respect your opinions, but I really do want to prove everybody wrong.

 

Would this be considered a late boosting turbo also then?


It's a front mount and doesn't seem to spool much different than mine on the dyno.

 

Is it the same turbo with same A/R and such??

Jose

 

I am not sure of the A/R but I thought it was either a .96 or a 1.?. It's the T76 turbo kit that CMotoring puts out for the LS1 Trucks. Very nice kit and can make great power. only 2 trucks are running them yet. One on 93octane with full exhaust @15psi is making 556rwhp. The above dyno sheet is on a stock 6.0L truck motor and a 234/232 .598/.595 115+1 cam.

My turbo in the dyno sheet I posted earlier is a GT35 which had a .68 housing but is said to flow similar to a .81 Trim housing but maybe a bit shy of?

I have yet to dyno my new turbo so i have no clue what it would look like.