Believe it man! It's here. Here is the slip from the 11.9 run...


Left: 1 (GN) Right (Z28)
0.00 Dial In 0.00
0.5865 Reaction 0.5527
1.5746 60 ft 2.2007
4.3386 330 ft 5.5672
6.6515 1/8 ET 8.0936
106.38 1/8 MPH 98.06
8.6158 1000 ET 10.1733
10.3110 1/4 ET 11.9340
133.41 1/4 MPH 128.24

I am the car on the right (Z28) racing a 10 second GN. I pulled the GN a little on the 2nd 1/2 (note the MPH gain). That GN is a bad futhermucker though. No 60 foot for me. The car had 245/50/16 NITTO drag radials and a new centerforce dual friction clutch. Both were slipping and caused the car to bounce the rev limiter at the end of the track in 4th gear.

The dynosheets I posted are good but I need to redyno. The high one (484/540 to the wheels) was aborted at 4700 rpm because I didn't want to test the completely stock fuel system at 10 lbs. Boost controller adjustment to 7 netted 463/473 to redline. After the dyno but before the run above, I put in 30lb injectors. I am still running stock programming.

I want to get the system finished and on the market. Then I will post more pics than you know what to do with. Oh, BTW - casually looking at the car driving down the interstate or parked somewhere, you would never know it were turbochargered. You can't hear it until it's too late!

 

Positive feedback is nice but I'm looking for people interested in buying something that can do what I claim it can do.

Yes, the only thing holding the elbow together is duct tape, string, and hose clamps. It keeps blowing the weather pack out of the IAT sensor connector. The only thing holding that together is duct tape. The boost keeps finding a leak near the maf and keeps blowing it off. What's holding that together? You guessed it. Duct tape and string.

It runs, you have seen dynosheets and time slips. I fail to see how showing you photographs of the system will prove how strong it runs. I guess you could call Ms Cleo and ask her what she thinks. Let me put it to you another way, if you don't believe it does everything I've claimed it to do, how much are you willing to pay to find out? I've already proven it with dynosheets and timeslips. If you want more proof, come on down and bring your pocket book with you.

 

i know of someone that has some nice videos of your car running down the track. now that there car is not running anymore they might have time to give you the videos and let you somehow post them for everybody

 

That seems awful high for a bone stock motor. The stock cam is not even close to being optimal for the turbo, it results is slow spool times (even for a small turbo) due to its excessive overlap. How do i know? I had a turbo on a stock engine. When it was being tuned on Ed Wrights dyno in your home town of Tulsa his very first dyno run was promptly shut down due to audible detonation and that was only 8 psi. The best he netted after 18 pulls with an A/F ratio of 12.0 was 372RWHP and 486RWTQ. Stock injectors cannot even with an FMU support the kind of HP you claim on stock tuning, ask my friend who put 11 psi to his stock motor with stock timing stock injectors and FMU, and had a handfull of piston peices the very first time he went WOT. 100 extra Hp is asking alot of a stock setup, 250+ from only 10 psi and no tuning is just unbelievable. I would have to see it with my own eyes. I'd be happy to see those numbers with my new setup with my PT76 q-trim turbo, 3" to 3.5" downpipe and ATI's Twin's, CNC ported heads and a custom cam. But if i could see some proof besides some junior member from the same town as you, who for all intensive purposes could be you, i'd be real interested in the exhaust parts. Sorry to doubt ya, I'm no expert for sure, but i've put together 2 turbo cars and a Supercharged car, so i can say i know a little about the beast of Forced induction, its that this seems way to good to be true.

Bill

 

Yes it does run (saw it in person), and Yes it's ghastly looking.

Fishing for attention well, that's up to him.

I say post the darn pictures who cares what it looks like.
It's progress in the works...

 

No problem, at least you are being cool in the presentation of your doubts. When I first started talking about doing this, most people never thought I would do it. When I did it, most people never thought it would put down much power. When it did, some people challanged that it would never make the numbers at the track. When it did that, I got flamed for it. All good though, I broke the record for the most Habinero wings eaten by a club member in one sitting too.

Here is some history from the other thread on the dyno. I guess I did lie about on part. On the dyno, I had an MSD Booster fuel pump (100 dollars from Internet Racers Supply). The intank pump is stock, the fuel lines are stock, the fuel filter is stock, the injectors are stock, the programming is stock, the fuel pressure regulator is stock however there is an FMU on it (bought the FMU off ebay for 35 bucks). I also have an MSD digital 6 Plus (175 off eBay), stock opti and coil (car is a 1997 30th Av Z28) and autolite 104s at stock plug gap. I am also using an MSD Boost Retard Box (just retard, no ignition enhancements) (eBay, 75 dollars). It also has the throttle body bypass mod, a cutout, a home made boost controller, and a 1LE elbow (what's left of it). Aside from the exhaust and induction modifications present as part of the turbocharger system, that is the limit of the modifications on I had on the dyno day.

I dynoed the car in June of 02. I don't have that dyno chart handy (lost in a move) but it made something to the effect of 260s/298 to the rear wheels. A few weeks later I figured out why my horsepower was so low; the throttle cable was stretched really bad. I adjusted it out and the car felt a lot better. Cruising around down with BBK shorties, a K&N FIPK, a home made resonator delete plug, throttle body bypass, and Autolight 104s, I could hang with or slightly pull stock and free mod LS1s. Nothing spectacular.

Anyway, back to the dyno, on the way down to Oklahoma City (about an hour and a half away) I couldn't get it to spool or boost to save my life. At the midway point, I yanked the elbow to discover a tear big enough to put my thumb through. I didn't have the obligitory duct tape with me but I did have some electrical tape. In the past the e-tape had been used to keep the IAT sensor from popping out of the elbow so we used it to seal the tear. When we got to OKC, I went to the speed shop, put in some 101 and bought a roll of duct tape. Before the pull we put on more e-tape and turned about 1/4in (thick) ball of duct tape onto the elbow. The tear is in the bellows so it was hard to get it perfect (Thanks Jason!).

The first pull the engine was still pretty cold. Having just built the boost controller, I didn't know how it would respond. The guys at powerhouse were nice enough to let me drive my own car on the dyno. Because of all the uncertainties, I thought it best that I operate the car. Good choice I realize now. Anyway, fire it up, run it up to 4th gear and nail it (M6). Boost still comes on slow at first but then really spools up and jumps from about 5 to 10psi damn quick. This is where I aborted the run. The dyno stopped at 4700 rpm where it made 484/540 to the rear wheels. A/F chart showed the car at 4700 rpm was 15:1. WAY LEAN!!! Got lucky. Turned the boost controller down to 7 (lucky guess, 3/4 turn on the bolt). Ran it up again to redline where it made 463/473 holding around 7 psi. A/F ratio was about 14:1 if I recall. It was lean but not as bad as the first.

Here is why I can get away with running 30lb SVO injectors on stock programming. I know very little about how the OBDII computers are coded but I've read a great deal about them and the following was the theory I based all my math on. Below 75% throttle, the computer reads the 02 sensors and trims the injector pulse accordingly. This is what people refer to as closed loop. There are also P/E (power enrichment), Lean Cruise, and Open loop modes. From what I've read, the lean cruise mode was never implemented in production. Lean cruise was designed to enhance fuel efficiency by running the engine slightly lean under low load conditions like cruising. I've also read that your car never really goes into open loop but I don't have any details on that. Beyond 75% throttle, the computer enters into P/E mode where it ignores the 02s and injects fuel based on pre programmed "maps" alone. For a given amount of air flow through the MAF, the injector will inject at a given pulse width reguardless of what the 02s say. On a N/A car, putting larger injectors in simply floods the car on stock programming. But on a forced induction car with stock injectors, you will run lean because the fuel maps and the maf are not calibrated for airflow beyond so many grams/sec. My bandaid is using the 02s to trim the fuel flow at part throttle and at fuel throttle, let the computer pulse the injectors for an N/A engine and stock fuel system when there are actually larger injectors and more fuel pressure present. I've got about 3 pages of math in my little notebook dedicated to testing this theory over and over again. While I'm sure it isn't perfect, it seems to be working quite well.

I'll give you the numbers are impressive and that if I were saying, my friends, sister's ex-boy friend, once worked for a guy that made 500hp with a turbocharged stock LT1, I'd probably wonder too. But this is sitting in my garage today, at home, hidding from the snow. You are more than welcome to come down and verify it yourself!

 

Also, giving me the benefit of the doubt , here are the dyno results from those pulls described above...

This is the first pull which was aborted...


This is the second pull at 7psi...


Note the difference in lowend torque between the two. The only explination I can come up with is the car was cold and the computer might have something to do with it?!

 

Someone said it right. If someone was going to make a turbo kit to sell, it would already have been done. You not posting photos because of that reason doesnt seem like very good justification to me. Maybe it is in your mind.

cmon... post some pics. what have ya got to lose? :-p

 

Well that's exactly my point! No one has done what I have done yet! If it had been done before, it wouldn't be so hard to believe. No one has yet been able to tell me what pics of the car up on a lift are going to prove about performance that my dyno charts and time slip aren't showing!

In my mind, I've got a huge investment of time and a lesser but still considerable investment of capital in this system. If it were just attention that I were after, I would just post a bunch of pics and let you tell me what you think of the system. My intention here is to let you guys know whats out on the horizon. It will be a well priced, high powered kit that can put down impressive number on a stock engine yet offer a degree of flexibility for upgraded engines or future engine upgrades.

Believe me, I'm getting used to the fire. A lot of the big converter/sticky tire guys are up in arms about it. Like I said, you will have the pics and a kit available to you shortly. But until my investment is protected, just bear with me on it's developement. Nothing will irritate me more than having a copy cat version of my system show up on someone elses website for sell. I am not willing to compete against my own engineering. It happens everyday...

 

lol

I can see your thought process.

I think we are all so used to the free exchange of info and photos on the website that when someone gets up in arms about it and doesnt want to, people want to call foul. Ill be the first to admit Im a bit skeptic as well but stranger things have happened that is for sure.

Either way, I want to see what it looks like froma curiosity standpoint.

Hardly anyone has done what I have done. I built my headers totally from sceatch as well. If someone were to duplicate it, would be no problems from me but then again Im not ready to market my setup either. Unless I can convince people to start ditching their motor mounts and stock k-members for motor plates and ditching AC. LOL

In any case, let us know when you get some photos. I want to see them strictly out of curiosity. I was going to tackle the project on a friend's 93 Z28 camaro but he ditched the LT1 and bought a buick V6 which has made its way into the car and Im instead building headers for a pair of twin stock GN turbos in his car rather than a single turbo LT1.

LOL

good luck

 

I've seen it, rode in it, watched it at the track.......it's not the Loch Ness monster....it's real. Hauls ***, stock cam and all. And, yes, it puts up those numbers dyno and ET

 

Thanks for the sentiment. This kit represents the introduction to a possible career change for me. If nothing else, it will help augment an income being generated in an unstable career field (IT) in an even more unstable city (Tulsa). The IT market here sucks. I've been selling turbochargers to the DIY crowd on the side for a while. I am a firm believer in the DIY mentality. I didn't go into this thinking about making a business out of it but it out performed all my own expectations. So I thought I would put it out on the market to make a little extra on the side. In my experience selling to the DIY crowd, sometimes people don't want to mess with inventing their own wheel. Now I want to cater to both. Unfortunately, I had very little guidence to go off of from the information pool. So I had to come up with my own.

I'm not against the free flow of ideas and information, I just want a chance to refine what I have built and put it on the market. I did offer to help anyone designing their own kit so I guess that supports the boards intentions. But hell, I've been flamed by people I considered friends long before I ever decided to make a kit out of this. Like I said before, it went from "you aren't/can't do it" to "you did it but it isn't going to perform well" to "lets see you back those dyno numbers up on the track" to silence. Heh, guess I'm glad I didn't believe the hype eh?

I understand the curiousity. I am still looking for suppliers and tooling up to build kits. I want to do as much inhouse fabrication as possible to keep the costs down. Hey Guido, if for some reason you want to check it out first hand and happen to be down this way, get with me and I'll show it to you and buy you a beer while you are here!

 

There is always going to be someone who's first at something. Think about the first brave soul who looked at a lobster and said "Damn that looks like something I have to eat!!!" People probably laughed at him and thought he was a freak. I know there have been attempts at turbo'd F-Bodies here on the board and elsewhere. I look at it a little like the Mustang crowd. Superchargers and NOS were the usual choices (and for the majority still are) for power adders but slowly turbo kits came to be. Think it happened overnight? Think the very first mass produced kit was the only kit, never to be improved on? Turbo kits are more complex and have more components so they are less user friendly and usually more expensive. I can see people being skeptical but saying it's BS because we haven't seen pictures makes little sense to me (just my .02). I'm dying to see pictures as much as the next guy but if he's lying about the car don't you think he could scare up pictures as easy as he could a dyno jpg? A few people have seen this thing run, they've posted on this board, they said it's ghastly. I've checked out the Tulsa F-body website and saw there was a Byran with a white & orange 97 Z. I think I'll give him time to prove his claims and really hope they turn out. If they don't so be it, I won't be crushed and it won't be the end of the world. I read and try to learn all I can about the HP potential of our cars, seeing what works and what doesn't and never saw a car seem to make so much HP with so few mods. Does that mean it can't happen? No. Case & point, I have a friend with a GN that looks 99% stock on the outside/interior, a little "un"stock but not by much under the hood and it runs BOTTOM 9's (maybe even an 8 second 1/4 by now). There is not a lot of off the shelf mods done to this car, most are carefully thought out and optimized by the owner (who also know runs a business now because his car responded so well, a little like TByrne). The car is very unassuming and I'm sure plenty of people have told him "it's not possible" to make that kind of HP with a 6 cylinder street car, or for it to run so fast that he needs a chute yet he drives the car OFTEN, on the street to car meets. Let's just see how things work out. No need for eveyone to get up in arms, TurboSpeed seems to take all this with a great attitude, which I appreciate. I respect a lot of people on this board, especially the turbo crowd because it's such uncharted territory. I know HP is hard as hell to come by, but what better way than 8 jugs pumping a nice healthy turbo?!?!?! It's perfectly human to doubt, especially something that sounds too good to be true but it's also human to try. Good luck Bryan.

 

So I'm curious, and please forgive me if you already posted it, but what size and kind of turbo's are you using? Did you build a log style header? Is this a big single, or twin turbo system?

I'm seriously considering selling my S-trim/aftercooler and building my own turbo system, so any tips you can pass along would be great. You can even email me privately if you so desire.

Mike

 

Hello. I am Jason, Turbospeed's friend. Yes I am a junior member who has jusst signed on to this board. I am here to attest to my friend's claims his car can and has run the numbers on the dyno and the track. We are in themiddle of setting up the design for multiple kits being made for various power gains. We are currently working on a kit for both LT1 and LS1's. We just want to make sure that everything turns out in the reliability factor as well as not having anyone copying off his design, or running across a big can of worms that we may not be aware of. Given time he will for sure produce more than enough information and pics about his setup. He just does not want anyone stealing his idea until he get a chance to work out all the bugs and make it presentable. Basically what he did was after he figured out what he wanted to do he built his kit out of rough parts in otherwise say not the best pipe and not the best hardware kits. He was merely putting it together to make sure his idea would work. As you will find out his work has payed off. So please be patient all you skeptics I understand what you are thinking for we have another person here in Oklahoma that is trying to build kits and that is one of the biggest reasons wh there are no pics yet. Thanks.