We would (of course) reccomend our own "MPE-FIS" (Fluid Injection System) as far as alky injection goes, It is a fully programmable, progressive alky setup with single or dual nozzle outputs, built in super-precision MAP sensor, and optional custom sheetmetal resoivoir. controller is to be interior mounted. Pump externally mounted by resoivoir. Standard resoivoir is about 3/4 gal. We can also fabricate 4+ gallon tanks for use in the F-bodies rear trunk pan section. a -4 AN feed line is used to get the fluid to the forward mounted nozzles.

I second the 1050, but the 1150 is a better choice....hehe

With a good head/cam setup you will need two 340 pumps at around 8 psi (I do) We have a '96 single turbo trans am. Built motor, our head/cam, and a single dual BB innovative 81. Been 9.78 @144 with the wick turned up to 16 psi, on 5-5.5 psi it went 11.07 @132 spinning on a small drag radial 6 spd car so it doesnt go to the track much, without of course coming home on a flatbed with a busted tranny...

Good luck and HTH, our alky setup isnt cheap, but its the best on the market. Just ask yourself.... "do I want to rebuld the motor again?"

 

How much is your alky injection setup?

 

I went with alkyl control... its progressive also and customizeable.. people from the GNs are running it successfully.. oh god.. when my car is done its going to be a frankenstein with all the controllers and such..

I am going to try to go by with the stock pcm, but will adapt an ls1pcm...

 

Can you tell me more about this setup?

I'm not familiar with it.

 

A "progressive" system sounds nice and would be a good idea if properly engineered. However, if it relies on lowering voltage to the pump it runs the risk of poor atomization (and loss of effectiveness) when running at less than full output. The way most of these cars are used, a progressive system is pointless. A typical centrifugal or turbo FI V-8 is run either out of boost (or at very low boost) where water isn't needed or at WOT+high revs where it needs a relatively large and relatively constant volume of injection fluid. A variable volume system would be useful for a tow situation or other conditions where there were extended periods at moderate boost levels (small engine heavily loaded, for another example).

Carroll Supercharging had some very well engineered systems. They used a multiple nozxle system. The pump always ran at full speed/pressure and to vary the volunme, multiple nozzles activated by solenoids were used. Due to premium prices, their business dropped off and I think they sold out to someone, not sure. That's a valid way to do it. But you want the injection fluid to be highly atomized, which require high pressure.

Basically, a variable system is an unnecessary complication for most of us and hard (= expensive) to do right. If it's done wrong, it probably worse than not doing it at all.

Rich

 

Rich -

So who do you think has the best overall value in a system today?


Also...

Where would be the best location for injection? Before the TB? Directly into the intake plenum?

 

Have/did you find any variation in the octane requirement of any of the combos tested?I commend you on your tuning technique. Takes tuning 'variables' out of the loop, allowing to concentrate on actual tuning.Hmmm. Experiences of others reveal a LEANER (elevated lambda) AFR figure with the supplemental use of water/alcohol injection, compared to straight fuel. What WB package do you use?

Interesting post. I'll add I agree with Rich"s description of a 'progressive' W/A injection system. Do the progressing with additional nozzles, and not the pump pressure. However, I would like to believe the Mease system employs that same reasoning.

One other note. I find is interesting, with the attention given to supplemental W/A injection, no question/mention was made of the water to fuel ratio needed to be effective at given RPM load points. Effectiveness can be in the details.

 

Isn't it about 1:5 or 1:4?

 

A few inches in front of the TB seems to work best.

I am not familiar with all of the systems, Carroll had a really nice one when they were in business, also the most $$$. Isn't that often the way? My friend Bob Kennedy at www.kennedysdynotune.com makes a nice kit. One of the best things about it is the use of high quality components. The pumps cost over $100 each, even when bought in bulk. And so on with the other components. The cost of the components alone exceeds the retail price of some of the systems being marketed. Makes you wonder how good the stuff they use is? These systems need to be close to 100% reliable or you could be out a motor, or at least a few pistons.

Rich

 

So what do you guys use for the methanol? I keep hearing talk about using windshield wiper fluid. If some winshield washer fluids are a blend of methanol and isopropyl alcohol, can this be used? Someone fill me in.

Raymond

 

Methanol can be purchased from paint stores and chemical supply houses. I now always have a drum around for race car fuel, but I used to buy it at a local paint store in five gallon cans. They had to order it though. It's a lot cheaper at a chemical supply house, but I used so little of it as injection fluid that it wasn't worth the trip.

Rich

 

Thanks Rich.

Raymond

 

BTW, in my experience; Sherwin Williams tends to be cheaper than Lowes or Homeless depot; when it comes to chemical prices. That can very from region to region I suppose, but I just wanted to pass it along. Oh, also... if you ASK for it, most Sherwin-Williams will let you buy chemicals at contractor prices; although they may ask you to set up an account. No big deal, it's just for record keeping, so that they can justify the lower prices to corporate.

 

Cool. Thanks for the info.

Raymond