Let the games begin! Turbo vs. supercharger test.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,082
From: San Juan PR
Re: Let the games begin! Turbo vs. supercharger test.
Originally Posted by camarossguy2
You know, now that i think about it...Most people have said a 700 hp turbo car vs a 700 hp s/c car, the turbo car will dominate, all other things being equal. The reasoning is "the area under the curve"
Well when you race, what rpm are you at? I know i drop about a grand or so every shift, so that leaves me in the 5800-6900 range the whole time...AKA my sweet spot....so the 2-5 rpm area never comes into play.
you may ask "what about off the line??" If anyone here can harness 400 hp of the line, much less 700 hp on street tire, your da bomb. I cant.
In fact, i love the progressive and consistent feel of my supercharger. It still take alot of work to not lite up the tires, but its consistent and i can figure it out.
THis is just my thoughts, im not saying a s/c is better them a turbo or visa versa. Im happy with it, and thats what is important.
lastly i will change my "really close" too 539/595
Well when you race, what rpm are you at? I know i drop about a grand or so every shift, so that leaves me in the 5800-6900 range the whole time...AKA my sweet spot....so the 2-5 rpm area never comes into play.
you may ask "what about off the line??" If anyone here can harness 400 hp of the line, much less 700 hp on street tire, your da bomb. I cant.
In fact, i love the progressive and consistent feel of my supercharger. It still take alot of work to not lite up the tires, but its consistent and i can figure it out.
THis is just my thoughts, im not saying a s/c is better them a turbo or visa versa. Im happy with it, and thats what is important.
lastly i will change my "really close" too 539/595
I do believe the feeling is of a faster car... but it waits to be seen... i am still undefeated against any car and i only had 607rwhp from an S-trim... raced many turbo cars having well over 800...
There is always someone faster than me... this is evident here on the forum.. ja... i will never be in the top 20 of this site no matter the setup... but locally is a different story, or, because i use my car on the street and not a track car...
Anyways... i just want to see how it goes.
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 610
From: Akron, OH.
Re: Let the games begin! Turbo vs. supercharger test.
I have been using Engine Analizer($150) computer program lately looking at 8-71's verse YSi's for my buds 496 elky build up. I have tried alot of variables and the roots really kicks YSi butt until about 3700-4500 depending on pulley set up. Past that and its all YSi. It looks like TPI vs LT1 graphs. But the preivous guy was right, you spend most time above 4000-4500 and low and midrange dont matter much except 1st gear... if you hook. I am not really sure how this stacks up to a 76 but I can't wait to see. I am more interested in the track times though.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,743
From: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
Re: Let the games begin! Turbo vs. supercharger test.
Sad to say. . . it was a frustrating day at the dyno.
We had problems with the laptop, the dyno, the wide band, and the engine. . .
The only thing I can say with confidence today is that the highest hp reading I got was 527 rwhp. The tachometer pickup was intermittent, and never worked at peak torque so I never got a peak torque number, unless you believe 1200 ft lb.
I believe that I have some troubleshooting to do, because the boost fell off 1 - 2 psi at the top of the gear, which usually indicates you've run out of turbo capacity. However, the T-76 GTS has made nearly 1000 rwhp, which is a far cry from my 527, so I CAN'T be running out of turbo.
I'll keep you guys posted.
Mike
We had problems with the laptop, the dyno, the wide band, and the engine. . .
The only thing I can say with confidence today is that the highest hp reading I got was 527 rwhp. The tachometer pickup was intermittent, and never worked at peak torque so I never got a peak torque number, unless you believe 1200 ft lb.
I believe that I have some troubleshooting to do, because the boost fell off 1 - 2 psi at the top of the gear, which usually indicates you've run out of turbo capacity. However, the T-76 GTS has made nearly 1000 rwhp, which is a far cry from my 527, so I CAN'T be running out of turbo.
I'll keep you guys posted.
Mike
West South Central Moderator / Special Guest
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 1,650
From: Coppell, TX USA
Re: Let the games begin! Turbo vs. supercharger test.
I dont think the T4 style turbos (your turbo for example) wwork well at ALL on a v8 in a single application. I keep telling me people this, but they dont listen :-( They can make power, but require some funky things, and a TON of boost.
There are way WAY WAY better turbos out there for this app. I would reccomend stepping up from a standard T4 exhaust housing size.
i picked up nearly 100rwhp with just a turbo change.
There are way WAY WAY better turbos out there for this app. I would reccomend stepping up from a standard T4 exhaust housing size.
i picked up nearly 100rwhp with just a turbo change.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 93
From: SE PA
Re: Let the games begin! Turbo vs. supercharger test.
Originally Posted by engineermike
Sad to say. . . it was a frustrating day at the dyno.
We had problems with the laptop, the dyno, the wide band, and the engine. . .
The only thing I can say with confidence today is that the highest hp reading I got was 527 rwhp. The tachometer pickup was intermittent, and never worked at peak torque so I never got a peak torque number, unless you believe 1200 ft lb.
I believe that I have some troubleshooting to do, because the boost fell off 1 - 2 psi at the top of the gear, which usually indicates you've run out of turbo capacity. However, the T-76 GTS has made nearly 1000 rwhp, which is a far cry from my 527, so I CAN'T be running out of turbo.
I'll keep you guys posted.
Mike
We had problems with the laptop, the dyno, the wide band, and the engine. . .
The only thing I can say with confidence today is that the highest hp reading I got was 527 rwhp. The tachometer pickup was intermittent, and never worked at peak torque so I never got a peak torque number, unless you believe 1200 ft lb.
I believe that I have some troubleshooting to do, because the boost fell off 1 - 2 psi at the top of the gear, which usually indicates you've run out of turbo capacity. However, the T-76 GTS has made nearly 1000 rwhp, which is a far cry from my 527, so I CAN'T be running out of turbo.
I'll keep you guys posted.
Mike
How much boost did you run?
Registered User
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 884
From: I reached back like a pimp and smacked that LS1....
Re: Let the games begin! Turbo vs. supercharger test.
I think a single T4 works great on V8 engines.
We are making 840+rwhp with Innovative GT76 R-trim's, 1.15 a/r on 346ci LS1's and 17lbs of boost.
We are making 840+rwhp with Innovative GT76 R-trim's, 1.15 a/r on 346ci LS1's and 17lbs of boost.
West South Central Moderator / Special Guest
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 1,650
From: Coppell, TX USA
Re: Let the games begin! Turbo vs. supercharger test.
thats why I used the words "i think".. only my opinion from what I have seen from personal experience, I know there are other people out there. Would be interesting to see what the turbo i select would do compared to that... *shrug*
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Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 884
From: I reached back like a pimp and smacked that LS1....
Re: Let the games begin! Turbo vs. supercharger test.
Originally Posted by JordonMusser
thats why I used the words "i think".. only my opinion from what I have seen from personal experience, I know there are other people out there. Would be interesting to see what the turbo i select would do compared to that... *shrug*
Well, don't get me wrong, I completely agree that a T6 makes a hell of alot more power, but believe it or not there are people out there that aren't going for 1200hp
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,743
From: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
Re: Let the games begin! Turbo vs. supercharger test.
I did a little trouble shooting today, and found that with 14 psi manifold pressure, the turbo is building 19 psi at its outlet. So, across the intercooler, piping, MAF, and throttle body, I have 5 psi pressure drop. I measured this with the T-trim and found only 1 psi pressure drop between the same two locations with the same intercooler and throttle body. I really doubt my bored and ported MAF is causing any pressure drop at all since it's >3" ID. So, I really have to look at the piping to get to the bottom of this.
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Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 884
From: I reached back like a pimp and smacked that LS1....
Re: Let the games begin! Turbo vs. supercharger test.
Wow, that is alot of pressure drop.
FWIW, the 840+rwhp I quoted above was through a stock screened maf sensor. (But we have since eliminated it with speed density tuning)
FWIW, the 840+rwhp I quoted above was through a stock screened maf sensor. (But we have since eliminated it with speed density tuning)
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 339
From: San Antonio, Texas
Re: Let the games begin! Turbo vs. supercharger test.
Originally Posted by engineermike
I did a little trouble shooting today, and found that with 14 psi manifold pressure, the turbo is building 19 psi at its outlet. So, across the intercooler, piping, MAF, and throttle body, I have 5 psi pressure drop. I measured this with the T-trim and found only 1 psi pressure drop between the same two locations with the same intercooler and throttle body. I really doubt my bored and ported MAF is causing any pressure drop at all since it's >3" ID. So, I really have to look at the piping to get to the bottom of this.
Is the turbo in roughly the same location as the T-trim was?
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 93
From: SE PA
Re: Let the games begin! Turbo vs. supercharger test.
Originally Posted by engineermike
I did a little trouble shooting today, and found that with 14 psi manifold pressure, the turbo is building 19 psi at its outlet. So, across the intercooler, piping, MAF, and throttle body, I have 5 psi pressure drop. I measured this with the T-trim and found only 1 psi pressure drop between the same two locations with the same intercooler and throttle body. I really doubt my bored and ported MAF is causing any pressure drop at all since it's >3" ID. So, I really have to look at the piping to get to the bottom of this.
Originally Posted by engineermike
My old setup was an 8.3/1 383, AFR210RR heads, high lift 224/236 - 114, 0 adv, ported LT4 intake, Hooker LT's, Vortech T-trim (13 psi peak), and Vortech aftercooler. Through a TH-350 with a loose converter, it dyno'd 575 rwftlb and 550 rwhp and ran 10.40 at 133 mph in a 3800 lb pig.
To make the kind of power you are looking for you need to flow around 1500 cfm thru the intercooler.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,743
From: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
Re: Let the games begin! Turbo vs. supercharger test.
Yes, the boost was very close to the same as the blower. The intercooler had very low pressure drop at 550 rwhp with the blower, so that shouldn't be any different at 525 rwhp with a turbo.
Mike
Mike