ok.. heres the first concept... the harder one.


air comes in thru a filter... probly K&N cone.. goes across car into "bottom" input on eaton blower...

compressed air goes out and into intercooler (not shown)


back from intercooler, the chilled air hits the throttle body, then into the plenum....

from there it goes into the runners into the intake ports... ports are tubular.. not really efficent or tuned, but its boosted so it doesnt really matter.

i should note that the fuel rails and injectors go on the tubes just before they enter the heads....
i didnt draw them in, but they're there..


athough i just thought of somthing... in a blow thru system like that, i dont think my bypass valve will work..... right?

ideas and suggestions are welcome. PLEASE mention any potential problems you see.... looking for some brainstorming here...

 

This would probably be more appropirate to post on the "Forced Induction" board. Moving it there.

 

That looks an awful lot like the Thunderbird Supercoupe set up.

Looks pretty hard to build. Maybe you'd be better off using the stock intake as the LT1 intake is very compact.

You would definitely need a bypass valve for a roots blower pushing through a throttle body. If not, the blower would build a bunch of pressure up in the inlet piping if the throttle is closed, causing the intercooler to burst or piping connections to come apart.

You do realize that the EATON M112 will only support about 400 - 450 rwhp, right?

You also need to fab up some sort of pulley system to drive it.

If you're looking to home-build something, a turbo would probably be easier and produce better results.

Mike

 

this is going on a SBC. i considered using a regular manifold, along with a few other ones.... problem is, it hits the hood with the blower over them, and one of the requirements is that it fits under the stock hood.

and yes i know a LT1 intake can fit on a SBC, but it wouldnt really help in this case.


so noone is confused:
a BYPASS valve bypasses the blower.. so the blower makes no boost, draws almost no power, and the engine runs N/A
a BLOWOFF valve blows off the access boost.... so if the throttle is shut the air still being shoved into the intake infront of the throttle body has somewhere to go.

when i woke up this morning, i solved this problem... i just need to use a diffrent acuator for the bypass.... im thinking of skipping the vac route all together and using a electric system that is computer controlled using the torque converter lockup.


no insulting or anything, but apparently noone told the lightning and cobra guys that, since they're putting out alot more....
its a bit more efficent then a std roots bower....
but thats besides the point.. goal is around there anyway... a daily driven street car doesnt need more then 450rwhp


turbos dont make the insane TQ or the instant responce im after.
plus packaging that would be more of a PITA then a blower.






any ideas or info on the ADVANCED TOPIC would be helpful...

**goes off wondering how roosters M112 thats "just" bolted onto a cut LT1 intake is advanced tech, while a side mounted, intercooled, custom manifold M112 setup is just another forced induction setup.. **

 

How would the torque converter lockup properly actuate a bypass valve? You want the bypass open at all times except WOT. The torque converter is unlocked during part throttle, locked at cruise, and both locked and unlocked at WOT.

HELLO! I have an '00 Lightning and my brother has an '03 Cobra. The Lightnings are making a maximum of around 415 rwhp with the stock M112 and the 6 spd. Cobras are making a max of around 460 rwhp with the stock M112's. People making more than that have switched to either a ported M112 or the Kenne Bell screwcharger.

Turbos make much more insane low end torque than an M112, just not instant response.

Mike

 

hey, dont take anything i said personally.... no offence ment.


i should have been more clear on the TQ converter lockup issue...

im burning my own prom, and ive converted to a T56 anyway... so i can set the conditions that the TQ converter lockup happens...
and that can trigger a 'noid or actuator and move it....... just a diff way to do it... same thing.
the reason the stock lightning actuator isnt going to work is that the throttle body is after the blower... so it would have to be comparing boost before the TB to the air after the TB to tell... *shrug*


and yes, this will be heavily ported and loud... i figure if silverback can get a M90 to push enough air to go JUST shy of 10s in that 4door, i should be able to tweek one to push me into the mid/low 11s....

 

If its going on an SBC, then why not just get a weiand 671 on there?

 

He wants to keep it under the stock hood. But, maybe a 144. . .

Mike

 

a 144 wont even fit under the stock hood... nevermind a 6-71... lmao...


ive pretty much ditched the idea of that setup... too complicated..

by using a lower manifold, it wont be as efficent of a manifold, but i can squeese my custom air 2 water intercooler under the blower...
so im going with a more conventional setup like this:

 

I fit a 144 with a Holley 750 and a 2" air cleaner under an '89 Firebird 2 1/2" cowl hood. Perhaps with injection, it can be made lower profile.

My senior design project was to design, build, and test the effectiveness of a compact water/air intercooler built into the lower manifold of a B&M 144.

After building the thing and tinkering with it endlessly, I found little to no gains from a core that small. The boost temperature dropped by about 8 degrees, which was worth less than 2 hp once you factor in the restriction the cooler adds. Even ice water didn't help the situation.

Just something to think about. . .

Mike

 

how thick was the core?

what was the upper area open to the manifold(surface area)?

what was the temp of the air above and below the intercooler?

what was the water temp in/out?


what /where do you think the bottle neck in cooler efficency is?

 

The core was 3/4" thick.

The "flow area" of the core was about 20 in^2.

Air temp in: ~220 deg. F.
Air temp out: ~212 deg. F.

Water temp change was very small.

The cooler didn't work because it simply wasn't big enough. There just wasn't enough heat transfer surface area.

Mike

 

my planned core is 2" - 3"... really its dependant upon what core i can get at a reasonable price.

heres a pic of what im doing now....



the blue is the adapter that moves the blower forward enough to align the belt. its running its own belt so it needs to move forward to clear the surp system... but the blower discharge is at the front.. makes it a bit of a pain. front pulley clears the stock hood with the insulation off by 1/2" though. camaros have slightly more space then 'birds and i dont think this would fit a bird without atleast cutting the hood bracing. i left myself some room on the adapter to mount my coil and other misc parts back there, and so i can get to the distrib a lil easier...


the red is the intercooler.. i dropped my manifold height and lowered the runner length.... i didnt really want to do that since its running N/A when bypassed, but i suppose having shorter runners wont hurt tooo bad...

the image isnt exactly to scale, but you can still tell, this blower is alot smaller in size then the 144.... if it wasnt for the intake and discharge ports, it would be alot easier to package....

 

umm..........riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

turbos are the torque kings............how many supercharged tractor trailors do you see?



btw, maybe i missed it, but what car is this setup going in?

 

on tractor pulls when they're going for power or on the avg mass produced hwy truck?

and yes you COULD do it for TQ, lets not get side tracked pickin bones here

1991 camaro convertible. my lil toy.
i dont want a cowl hood.