After all the help I've received from many in here it's the least I can do. I'm no expert but just telling you what I've learned and most importantly to research it yourself and try to see a pattern of what works and what doesn't. Unfortunately you're going to get a lot of different opinions and information. Best way to go about it is listen to those who give you actual data you can understand, figure out who the "experts" really are, then you compare their info and will likely find it starts to vary considerably less than the info you'll get from a whole gambit of posters.

There are many things accepted as common knowledge and truth that aren't really true for every application in most cases. Like needing a really broad LSA cam to use with a blower for example. That's not really true if you're using low to moderate boost and really depends on other variables, like how your heads flow on the intake vs the exhaust, what type of headers and exhaust you're using, the size of your throttle body, etc. Usually a 112 LSA (depending on duration and advance of course) cam is going to be plenty of separation for a 6 - 12 PSI blower/mild heads setup and going any wider is just going to cost you some low end if you don't need it. Just an example, I don't apply this knowledge often enough to show you the math on it off the top of my head but I can dig some stuff up that should make sense to you if you'd like it and could e-mail it to you.

If you'd decide to rebuild strong enough for two power adders that's cool but it will cost you if you really want to do it right. Personally I'd rather just use more boost than low boost plus small shot but that's just me. If you'd only use the nitrous once in awhile or only at the track it could be beneficial long term to set it up low boost plus small shot. If you'd rather have the power on tap all the time obviously you'd be better off with simply using more boost. I think that's way cooler myself, and probably less risk to the bottom end when you're at full tilt. I could go on and on but it's all really just pros and cons. I just fear you may be thinking of having a PD pullied at 6 PSI on a mild motor and figure adding say... a 100 shot on top of it would work well, I have my doubts. The quicker reving incurred by the 100 shot would overwhelm a PD's internal belt and/or cause excessive slippage of the external belt. Some use a stronger Kevlar internal belt and still break it without any N2O just from having it pullied up a little bit over 6 PSI. N2O comes on with that "BAM!!" hit and anything over a 50 shot would surely be too much for a PD, especially with an M6 with the quick changes in RPM and loading/unloading. I'm not convinced a 50 shot would truly work well either.

This all comes back to what your ultimate goal is. If you think you want lots of power later on then stay away from the PD. I hate to bash my own blower but figure honesty's the best policy. If you're truly sure you're cool with 450 hp or less then sure ...go for it.

BTW I also want to clarify one of my earlier posts. One of the advantages of going with higher compression and less boost vs lower compression and more boost is better light throttle response and low (LOW) end torque along with better mpg and overall driveability. Tuning will be easier too.

 

Not to hijack, many good points.
I have the 4.5 PD and I like it, but it came with the car, CURRENTLY no boost gauge, its in the garage. Here are some questions that I need help with.
1. Anybody make or experience seeing a different intake tube/track. Heard of an extra pound of boost, with the use of homemade intake tube(Stock LT-1)
2. Although belt slip is not an issue, anybody use an aftermarket/homemade tensioner( I did not see any dust on mine).
3. Getting ready to do the plugs (first time for this car) going with the NGK TR6...pointer???
4. Mail Order tunes, such as PCMFORLESS, any luck with a good tune for Supercharged cars. Nothing wild, I guesss safe side rich?
Thanks in advance.
Rich

 

1. You can simply rearrange the existing PD plumbing and eliminate the flex hose which is pure garbage. This must be done ASAP before it wears a slit or comes into contact with something on the road. I had a custom skidplate built for mine before I went all solid due to the stupid flex hose hanging so close to the ground. You can use a large K&N RE-0920 (if I didn't transpose a number ..it might be 9020 but I think it's 0920, ask me if you need it) filter to add boost and enhance intake sound, etc. You will need to order an extra silicone sleeve from PD or other to allow for using all solid tubing. Just mess around with the existing solid tubing you have a bit and you'll figure it out, if you need pics of mine installed I could get that for you later on (right now it's disassembled in my garage floor).

2. Not aware of an aftermarket spring loaded tensioner, probably not worth the effort at your boost level. You shouldn't have belt slip problems at 4.5# unless it's just too loose or worn out.

3. I think most have had pretty good luck with that plug, however they are known to be a little prone to opening up (gap opens up over time). Most prefer Autolite 104's gapped at .032, you are one heat range cooler than stock with the 104 (same for TR6 I believe) and they are less prone to gap opening up. The 104's are cheap and work great and don't have that silly tendency to come loose at the post that goes into the wire. I'm using 106's right now (stock heat range) but I'm at 9.5:1 compression on a tight quench so they work fine.

4. I'm not convinced a mail order tune would be worth it at that boost level, really stock tuning isn't so far off at 4.5#....I'd be a little nervous about the stock timing at high rpm's but it might be just fine. PCM for Less has a great rep in here though and if you don't want to fool with it much it would a reasonable way to have it tuned and small investment of money and time. Stock fuel is probably just fine for 4.5# but I would prefer some timing being removed up high to be safe, you could do that with an electronic boost-proportional timing retard and keep stock tuning (it retards timing separately from the PCM). I prefer the MSD6BTM setup, better track record than the Crane TRC-2 or TR-6 and ultimately worked better for me (have used the TRC2 with the Crane ignition and currently using the MSD6BTM). If all you plan to use is the 4.5# though I think I'd invest in a Scanmaster or Datamaster scanning software and first check to see if there's any knock retard (or borrow a mechanic's scanner for a pull or two). If there isn't any knock, you'd probably be just fine with the stock tune and even the stock ignition if it works without other problems. However, if you already have a laptop and don't mind to learn LT1 Edit and pay ~300 for the software and a quality cable, you may as well do it and get in there and take out a few degrees of timing in the 4,500+ rpm range in the 100 KPA row. Honestly you could actually lean fuel out in the PE vs RPM table and still be on the rich side at 4.5#, the factory makes the WOT fueling super rich to compensate for abuse and low octane to protect the warranty. To articulate this, even with cam/heads/blower over-pullied to be like an "8# kit", long tube headers, etc ..... my PE vs RPM fueling is actually leaner than stock in several cells and I still run on the rich side according to scans. If you're using the stock cam and don't rev past 6K, stock fuel will likely be enough. I'm positive it's more than enough fuel up to 5,600 and it's probably ok all the way to 6K but I won't swear on that, every engine acts a little different and I have to admit I've never run a 4.5# combo. If I remember right I'm only a little richer than stock from 5,600 to 6,000 ....too tired right now and have to go to bed lol. From 5,200 and down I am actually leaner than stock and it still hits mv's of .945 in those areas (rich, likely ~12.0:1 on a wideband). FWIW I keep a Scanmaster permanently mounted in my middle A/C vent so I always know whether or not I'm getting knock retard. If it's persistent and seems real rather than false (have to test a few different ways) it really needs to be addressed. Even if it's false you want to address it as it's killing power. In case it seems weird that I'm using a timing retard AND LT1 Edit, that's only because initially I used the stock programming. Now I only use the timing retard as an extra safeguard for routine driving. When I need to really roll I zero it out and rely on my already reduced timing table in the PCM.

Feel free to shoot more questions at me, it's fun to give something back.

 

Good points with the potential belt spin while running nitrous on the powerdyne. I didnt even think of that...i was more thinking of the engine..but that would be a signifigant problem as well.

I just dont know what I want yet!! I am going to see how I am liking the ported heads/intake set up when i get that whole thing done this spring. If it feels way too slow, i might jump up an intercooled procharger and absorb its larger cost, and see how that does...but if i think the power level is pretty good with the h/c/i setup, then maybe ill just go with a cheap, used 4.5# powerdyne add 50 rwhp or so and call it a day.

I wish I knew some people in this area that had cars with the power levels i want to 'sample'...this way i knew what i wanted. The only experience i had with a high powered car was a friend who had a 620 rwhp cobra..and that thing scared the **** out of me. i definately will not be going that fast.

I still have plenty of time to work out what i want though...I wont be going FI at least until next winter...but im definatly going FI at some point.

 

It's good that you have plenty of time. The more time you spend learning about it the better. You'll have fun progressing through different power levels going with H/C first and so on as well. Knowing what I know now, if I were you I'd go H/C first like you're doing. Then I'd go with a nice used Vortech S-Trim since it could support modest power increases or a rather large increase. You could progress in stages with it, starting out with 6 PSI non intercooled on the stock bottom end, then say 9 PSI non intercooled on a built bottom, then say 12 PSI aftercooled .....by then you'd be well into your max power goal (since you said 600+ rwhp seemed like too much for you). I prefer Vortech because they have the spring loaded tensioner, better quality ductwork, better durability and customer service reputation than ATI, etc. Although I hear ATI has improved significantly in recent years. To decide on the PD you'll just have to see how you like the H/C and use it for awhile like that ...trying to determine if another 50 - 100 HP would be a sufficient permanent maximum increase for you.

Also, what about noise? Do you like it or not? That could be a big factor too. I'm pretty sure PD's the quietest and the V2 Vortech is the second quietest. I've heard both in person and both are very very quiet. Not sure about ATI, usually really loud from what I hear. Personally I wish my PD made a little more noise ....all I can hear is a faint impellor whine that is like a jet way off in the distance and it's only around 1,100 - 1,700 rpm when shifting or decelerating. Otherwise it's practically non existent. Then you have V1 S-Trims and most of the ATI models ....just too loud for my taste, would get old for me. I wonder if there's a blower somewhere in between in noise level? Anyone? ....that would be cool.

 

Hmm..used vortech..do you know what prices are for that? That I would consider, as well as an ATI, if i determine that ~360 rwhp is no where near where i want to be. But then again, I think if i started to get addicted to the power and the vortech/ati potential, I might end up in a trap...and spend thousands and thousands of $$ upgrading my car as the power kept going up..because in my eyes i'll always want something more. So that would be another reason for me to go powerdyne..it would be too much of a PIA for me to want to swap out for another charger and more potential...and therefore, i'd save myself some troubles with money and car in the future. For my own practicality, it would probably be better to keep it as simple as possible...but who knows..maybe in a year ill be making alot more $$.

Noise is good . I can live without a blower whine (I am cammed now, and it sure sounds good as it is), but i'd like to have 'some' whine/whistle. I've heard the ati's are pretty damn loud. I am not sure how loud is too loud, as i've not heard anything like that in person...but my car now is pretty loud, and it doesnt bother me a bit(its actually a bit louder now then it was in my soundclip below..as i added a high flow cat and that did make it nicer sounding). a nice lopy whistling noise would certainly kick ***.

 

there's a pic of my intake tube made from Home Depot plumbing fittings.
I shortened it up recently to accomodate a larger filter
but you get the idea.
You also have to cut the air dam that channels air up into the cooling system.
As to the fit off the compressor to the intake elbow, I cut the top hose so the parts at the head would fit tightly together, then added a plumbing hose over the cut top hose as it is now too short. It's a plumbing part also from Home Depot that cost about 7.00 or so.
You can see it in the pic of the underhood.
Comes with a metal sleeve too.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v142/2cub49/

 

2cub49, what is the pump on the driver's side inner fender well? It has a blue hose running over the core support. Thanks

 

Expect to pay ~2K for a good complete used S-Trim kit, another ~500-1,000 for an Aftercooler and it will need a better tank and pump to work really well. NO WAY I'd ever buy a new kit again, just way too much $ imo. Find someone on here who others can vouch for who has plenty of post counts and be careful with handling the transaction of course. Blowers can be rebuilt pretty cheaply and completing a kit can also be inexpensive if you can make use of hardware stores. Most head units hold up pretty well (esp Vortech) and the odds of breaking your engine are greater than breaking the blower. To me all of this is reason enough to not buy new unless you just want the latest most cutting edge stuff and assurance of a "complete" kit (IMO there is no truly "complete" blower kit though).

As far as solid tubing for the PD, I think you're better off just using the existing tubing and buying an extra silicone sleeve. It looks cleaner and the way mine's done it's protected a lot better from the road and rain.... no need to cut anything. I even have a fabbed up skidplate that covers the tubing. The MAF and large filter are both tucked in the box in the inner fender well and the ductwork is held up by a solid metal hanger. I'll get pics later when it's back together if anyone needs them.

 

That pump is for my water/metanol injection.
The underhood is so cramped I put it there
with electrical ties. Seems to fit well there.
I have alkycontrol controllers but haven't actually used the system yet.
Car ran good without it with Ion's tune.
I'll hook it up this spring as I'm putting in a blower cam and ported intake with a 58mm TB and a more aggressive tune.
Sending the tranny out for a CPT rebuild and 2800 stall convertor while the car's down for the winter so she'll be a terror come spring.

 

Well finally made it to the dyno.
Car Spec:
1997 Z28 1LE/M6
Powerdyne #4.5/FMU/No known tuning
1.6RR
BBK Shorties, Aftermarket Y pipe, FI FLOW Cats, Borla(no Plate)
Electric Water Pump(CSI)
NGK TR-6, Autozone wires
SPEC 3< Alum Fly Wheel
10 bolt, 3:42(stock)

I don't have the boost gauge on yet, but it looks to be #4.5 pulley...stock hoses.
This was a DYNOJET, 50 degree weather, car at operating temp (185)

I was shocked at the results
409RWHP/434RWTQ
Yes, I was so shocked that I had them run it again and it was +-5 HP/TQ on the second run.
Another combination of all the wrong parts(Powerdyne, BBK)
I will post the dyno sheet soon.

 

Considering your old #'s looked a bit high for your combination, I'd say your dyno reads a bit high. Looks like you're getting a very good increase for a mere 4.5# kit though, a little atypical maybe. When you put a correction factor in for that 50* temp that will bring it down significantly but that's still a good set of #'s. For comparison's sake back when mine was stock with 1.6 RR's, LT headers, PD over-pullied to make 7.5# boost ....on a cool day like yours (I think it was about 55 - 60) I believe it made nearly 400 rwhp but when corrected it was 384 ...the torque was 402 after correction factor. This was on a really rich, conservative tune so there was more in it but I opted to keep it safe.

Anyway, I think your car is a bit of a freak regardless

 

Not very much. 100rwhp from 6 psi with that s/c? I would like to see it to believe it. Non intercooled, self contained which heats up to not-good-for-making-hp temperatures, they are ok. But if you were to look at all other s/c manufacturers, it is the worst for a LT1. JMHO.

 

Well not exactly. Self contained means the unit itself is not pre-heated to the 190 degree oil temp that the oiled units are. Couple that with a resonably efficient impeller design, and you have a supercharger that does not need intercooling as long as it's operated within its intended impeller speed range.

My TTS datamaster logs have the IAT at 160 degrees by the end of the quarter mile (124 mph) on an 80 degree day. No knock, pump gas, and if it does fail the blower, no metal debris in the oil pan to destroy the motor either. Just another point of view I suppose.

 

Did you notice you went up by exactly 97 in both HP and TQ? Your old dyno numbers, were they corrected? It would make sense to me that maybe your old ones were, once you factor in correction on these new ones they'll be right around 7-8 less I think (don't know the factor). That's still about 20 rwhp per lb of boost though.