Honda Turbo - Is he lieing?
06-10-2004, 10:45 AM
#1
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Posts: 467
Honda Turbo - Is he lieing?
This is a post from some guy who claims to own a shop on another forum. Now my understanding of PSI is that 6PSI is 6PSI regardless of the turbo size. As in a big turbo will push the same amount of air flow as a small turbo if they are both using 6PSI?
The reason I find this difficult to believe is because I checked various other websites and they all said that the 1.6L honda would only make about 210HP on 6PSI. I was arguing with this character, but now I've hit a dead end as I do not know the answer to my above question. I know this is not about Z28s but I figured that it was a nobel quest to defend the LT1 since this guy continually bashes them with talk of Hondas as a superior vehicle.
I even quote him "Pushrod technology was cool in the 60s but now we have superior technology like VTEC"
"Now if i told you the car went 12.3 @109 mph on slicks on 6 psi weighing 2250 you would most likley not have a problem beleiving that. well the car did in fact run those numbers...untuned. it did not make any real nice passes until after i tuned it. you do not need a dyno to tune a car, but it does for certain help in creating the most power. the fact that a larger motor with a different companies turbo kit makes less power at more boost with a much smaller turbo should not tell you that we are lieing, i would think it would let you know the efficiency of that kit. we run totally different manifolds aiding in spool time and larger turbos to alow us to flow more air at lower boost. The efficiency of our aftercoolers is second to none. I also do really well with the unichip and have been trained by their tuner up in portland on how to acheive the maximum power using the equipment. I think ill let you know the next time we go back out to the track so you can simply come and see for yourself. I dont think youll be a skeptic any more after that."
The reason I find this difficult to believe is because I checked various other websites and they all said that the 1.6L honda would only make about 210HP on 6PSI. I was arguing with this character, but now I've hit a dead end as I do not know the answer to my above question. I know this is not about Z28s but I figured that it was a nobel quest to defend the LT1 since this guy continually bashes them with talk of Hondas as a superior vehicle.
I even quote him "Pushrod technology was cool in the 60s but now we have superior technology like VTEC"
"Now if i told you the car went 12.3 @109 mph on slicks on 6 psi weighing 2250 you would most likley not have a problem beleiving that. well the car did in fact run those numbers...untuned. it did not make any real nice passes until after i tuned it. you do not need a dyno to tune a car, but it does for certain help in creating the most power. the fact that a larger motor with a different companies turbo kit makes less power at more boost with a much smaller turbo should not tell you that we are lieing, i would think it would let you know the efficiency of that kit. we run totally different manifolds aiding in spool time and larger turbos to alow us to flow more air at lower boost. The efficiency of our aftercoolers is second to none. I also do really well with the unichip and have been trained by their tuner up in portland on how to acheive the maximum power using the equipment. I think ill let you know the next time we go back out to the track so you can simply come and see for yourself. I dont think youll be a skeptic any more after that."
06-10-2004, 11:13 AM
#2
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Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
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Re: Honda Turbo - Is he lieing?
Where did you find the post? link please. 
Also what is the name of the shop he owns?
Also what is the name of the shop he owns?
Originally posted by Z28WannaB
This is a post from some guy who claims to own a shop on another forum. Now my understanding of PSI is that 6PSI is 6PSI regardless of the turbo size. As in a big turbo will push the same amount of air flow as a small turbo if they are both using 6PSI?
The reason I find this difficult to believe is because I checked various other websites and they all said that the 1.6L honda would only make about 210HP on 6PSI. I was arguing with this character, but now I've hit a dead end as I do not know the answer to my above question. I know this is not about Z28s but I figured that it was a nobel quest to defend the LT1 since this guy continually bashes them with talk of Hondas as a superior vehicle.
I even quote him "Pushrod technology was cool in the 60s but now we have superior technology like VTEC"
"Now if i told you the car went 12.3 @109 mph on slicks on 6 psi weighing 2250 you would most likley not have a problem beleiving that. well the car did in fact run those numbers...untuned. it did not make any real nice passes until after i tuned it. you do not need a dyno to tune a car, but it does for certain help in creating the most power. the fact that a larger motor with a different companies turbo kit makes less power at more boost with a much smaller turbo should not tell you that we are lieing, i would think it would let you know the efficiency of that kit. we run totally different manifolds aiding in spool time and larger turbos to alow us to flow more air at lower boost. The efficiency of our aftercoolers is second to none. I also do really well with the unichip and have been trained by their tuner up in portland on how to acheive the maximum power using the equipment. I think ill let you know the next time we go back out to the track so you can simply come and see for yourself. I dont think youll be a skeptic any more after that."
This is a post from some guy who claims to own a shop on another forum. Now my understanding of PSI is that 6PSI is 6PSI regardless of the turbo size. As in a big turbo will push the same amount of air flow as a small turbo if they are both using 6PSI?
The reason I find this difficult to believe is because I checked various other websites and they all said that the 1.6L honda would only make about 210HP on 6PSI. I was arguing with this character, but now I've hit a dead end as I do not know the answer to my above question. I know this is not about Z28s but I figured that it was a nobel quest to defend the LT1 since this guy continually bashes them with talk of Hondas as a superior vehicle.
I even quote him "Pushrod technology was cool in the 60s but now we have superior technology like VTEC"
"Now if i told you the car went 12.3 @109 mph on slicks on 6 psi weighing 2250 you would most likley not have a problem beleiving that. well the car did in fact run those numbers...untuned. it did not make any real nice passes until after i tuned it. you do not need a dyno to tune a car, but it does for certain help in creating the most power. the fact that a larger motor with a different companies turbo kit makes less power at more boost with a much smaller turbo should not tell you that we are lieing, i would think it would let you know the efficiency of that kit. we run totally different manifolds aiding in spool time and larger turbos to alow us to flow more air at lower boost. The efficiency of our aftercoolers is second to none. I also do really well with the unichip and have been trained by their tuner up in portland on how to acheive the maximum power using the equipment. I think ill let you know the next time we go back out to the track so you can simply come and see for yourself. I dont think youll be a skeptic any more after that."
06-10-2004, 11:21 AM
#4
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This was on another tuner website, its for my local area. Basically they were saying that LT1s were a crappy platform and that my money could have been better spent on a 1991 integra. 
I only paid 3,000 for my car I don't think an Integra could do much better than my LT1 for that amount of money do you guys?
They made references to HP/Liter ratio, and he said that all you need are coilovers in an integra to pull a 1.6 60 foot, and that he made over 318HP with only 6psi, and that he ran 22psi on a stock 1.8L LS integra engine. Anyways I called him out on pretty much everything except this last part because I wasn't entirely sure.
- Z28WannaB
I only paid 3,000 for my car I don't think an Integra could do much better than my LT1 for that amount of money do you guys?
They made references to HP/Liter ratio, and he said that all you need are coilovers in an integra to pull a 1.6 60 foot, and that he made over 318HP with only 6psi, and that he ran 22psi on a stock 1.8L LS integra engine. Anyways I called him out on pretty much everything except this last part because I wasn't entirely sure.
- Z28WannaB
06-10-2004, 11:26 AM
#5
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Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 2,784
Originally posted by Z28WannaB
This was on another tuner website, its for my local area. Basically they were saying that LT1s were a crappy platform and that my money could have been better spent on a 1991 integra.
I only paid 3,000 for my car I don't think an Integra could do much better than my LT1 for that amount of money do you guys?
- Z28WannaB
This was on another tuner website, its for my local area. Basically they were saying that LT1s were a crappy platform and that my money could have been better spent on a 1991 integra.
I only paid 3,000 for my car I don't think an Integra could do much better than my LT1 for that amount of money do you guys?
- Z28WannaB
If you know what you are doing you can get a Honda to go really fast. One of my friends is going 9.8's @ 152 mph with his CRX and has spent less than 20k in the car. In my eyes that is extremely impressive.
Everyone will have their preferences on a car but one it comes down to it most imports are slow generally slow and expensive to make go fast if you do not know what you are doing.
Plus you can add the fact they sound like popcorn machines. 
Last edited by IDOXLR8; 06-10-2004 at 11:55 AM.
06-10-2004, 02:33 PM
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They made references to HP/Liter ratio, and he said that all you need are coilovers in an integra to pull a 1.6 60 foot...
A GSX All-Wheel-Drive Eclipse with a big turbo, clutch, and sticky tires has a tough time pulling that. BS. Not to mention shocks are more important in launch then springs.
...and that he made over 318HP with only 6psi.
BS. Even flywheel. Assuming he had a 200hp iVTEC (which I doubt he does) that'd be 20hp/psi of boost. Even a 6L engine built for boost sees that much...
...and that he ran 22psi on a stock 1.8L LS integra engine.
I'll pay money to watch that happen. No way the stock block can take it more then a few moments - and at 20hp/psi - he was thusly making 640hp on a stock 1.8L block. That's the biggest BS of all. Not to mention there's no way the stock flywheel, tranny, clutch, and joints could hold that much power. NO WAY.
Lt1's are a bad platform? Anyone with their heads out of their asses in the import world knows the #1 cheap go-fast cars are DSMs. 90-93 GSX's for $2000, then $1500 in mods and you can pull high 12's. Another $2000 and you're in the 11s. It's getting into the 10's that means $7000 in engine, tranny, etc. And then you break axles a lot on those launches. Integras are one of the worst buys for cost:speed. You'd be better getting a CRX.
And I'll have $12,000 in mods including chrome wheels and tires (bling bling!) and I'm looking to run into the 10's.
Where's he located? This guy needs to have some boosted v8's roll by...
Oh - and "technology of Vtec?"
Z06 Corvette---- Honda S2000
5.7L v8------------2L I4
3118lb-------------2809lb
405hp@6000-----240hp@8300
400tq@4800------153tq@7500
19mpg city---------20mpg city
28mpg hwy--------26mph hwy
So this technology lets them make an engine with 1/3 the displacement produce:
60% of the HP (not bad!)
38% of the tq (ouch!)
90% of the weight (piggy little s2000!)
5% more city mpg
9% less hwy mpg!
So with a lightweight high-tech engine (honda's best!), power or not, it gets on average WORSE fuel economy (1city:2hwy) with 1/3 of the engine? If you ask me that stinks! That's horrible!
Using a smaller engine to make less power and worse fuel economy. Sounds like a great idea to me. Also why is it that the Honda Pro Class Drag cars all ditch the VTEC equipment? Because it's bad for speed once you mod! If the pros ditch it, maybe it's not so good...
This guy sounds like a BS ricer galore. And this is his shop?
A GSX All-Wheel-Drive Eclipse with a big turbo, clutch, and sticky tires has a tough time pulling that. BS. Not to mention shocks are more important in launch then springs.
...and that he made over 318HP with only 6psi.
BS. Even flywheel. Assuming he had a 200hp iVTEC (which I doubt he does) that'd be 20hp/psi of boost. Even a 6L engine built for boost sees that much...
...and that he ran 22psi on a stock 1.8L LS integra engine.
I'll pay money to watch that happen. No way the stock block can take it more then a few moments - and at 20hp/psi - he was thusly making 640hp on a stock 1.8L block. That's the biggest BS of all. Not to mention there's no way the stock flywheel, tranny, clutch, and joints could hold that much power. NO WAY.
Lt1's are a bad platform? Anyone with their heads out of their asses in the import world knows the #1 cheap go-fast cars are DSMs. 90-93 GSX's for $2000, then $1500 in mods and you can pull high 12's. Another $2000 and you're in the 11s. It's getting into the 10's that means $7000 in engine, tranny, etc. And then you break axles a lot on those launches. Integras are one of the worst buys for cost:speed. You'd be better getting a CRX.
And I'll have $12,000 in mods including chrome wheels and tires (bling bling!) and I'm looking to run into the 10's.
Where's he located? This guy needs to have some boosted v8's roll by...
Oh - and "technology of Vtec?"
Z06 Corvette---- Honda S2000
5.7L v8------------2L I4
3118lb-------------2809lb
405hp@6000-----240hp@8300
400tq@4800------153tq@7500
19mpg city---------20mpg city
28mpg hwy--------26mph hwy
So this technology lets them make an engine with 1/3 the displacement produce:
60% of the HP (not bad!)
38% of the tq (ouch!)
90% of the weight (piggy little s2000!)
5% more city mpg
9% less hwy mpg!
So with a lightweight high-tech engine (honda's best!), power or not, it gets on average WORSE fuel economy (1city:2hwy) with 1/3 of the engine? If you ask me that stinks! That's horrible!
Using a smaller engine to make less power and worse fuel economy. Sounds like a great idea to me.
Also why is it that the Honda Pro Class Drag cars all ditch the VTEC equipment? Because it's bad for speed once you mod! If the pros ditch it, maybe it's not so good... This guy sounds like a BS ricer galore. And this is his shop?
Last edited by Geoff Chadwick; 06-10-2004 at 02:46 PM.
06-10-2004, 02:44 PM
#7
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Originally posted by Z28WannaB
he said that all you need are coilovers in an integra to pull a 1.6 60 foot
he said that all you need are coilovers in an integra to pull a 1.6 60 foot
400tq@4800------153tq@7500
06-10-2004, 08:17 PM
#8
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Location: Clovis, NM
Posts: 878
false turth
They say that vtec is the newest and best all the time like a broken record (man, where do these guys get "programed" at).
I guess thay heven't see the new ford 3 valve engine with eletronicly varible exhaust valve timing, it's light years ahead of machinacly oil pressure controaled cam lobe switching.
There are varible intake runner length intake manifolds, those are kind of cool, the new hemi and a few others have it.
The GM 427 LS7, enough said.
The I-6 balzer engine has varible exhaust valve timing also, it got rid of the EGR.
I love to say it, but the vtec is old.
I here that old vtec core blocks (b-serries)are selling like there made of gold or some thing if the junk dealer knows what he has he can get more for a B serries block than a running BBC some times.
New fad: waste the most money for the least power possible.
Every time a hear a honda put a rod through the block I get a little happier.
some one post that corvet vs. s2000 over on one of there boards and see if any of them have any thing intellgent to say about it.
That is in writing to me proof why the push rod vett engine is better than the OHC lawn mower engine in the honda car.
What gets more chicks honda or vett?
Why one turbos make more power at 6psi than the other.
Well the turbine side has a lot to do with it for one, a larger turbine makes less of a restriction higher up in the rpm scale.
Compressor has a lot to do with it also you chang the trim and compressor dia. to some thing better suited to your appication you make more power.
If you have a turbo on your car and put a nother one on your car and it makes more power you found a better matched turbo for your setup.
Stupid ricers say "this turbo flows way more air into my car at 6psi than that last turbo did @ 6psi" because they don't know how to mach a turbo to there car first of all or they wouldn't have to up grade the turbo with no other mods being done in the mean time.
Turms like engine VE, trim, a/r, compresser map mean nothing to most of them. If that guy ran a turbo shop he could school you in how to match a turbo to any piston driven car.
Not, "we like to put T4/T3 turbos in our cars", "that's an compressor map", "puting a turbo on a V8 is totaly different than putting one on a honda" you hear that from the people that know every thing about putting turbos on imports, " buick-grand-national?!?" pre 90's turbo is un known to most of them.
I guess thay heven't see the new ford 3 valve engine with eletronicly varible exhaust valve timing, it's light years ahead of machinacly oil pressure controaled cam lobe switching.
There are varible intake runner length intake manifolds, those are kind of cool, the new hemi and a few others have it.
The GM 427 LS7, enough said.
The I-6 balzer engine has varible exhaust valve timing also, it got rid of the EGR.
I love to say it, but the vtec is old.
I here that old vtec core blocks (b-serries)are selling like there made of gold or some thing if the junk dealer knows what he has he can get more for a B serries block than a running BBC some times.
New fad: waste the most money for the least power possible.
Every time a hear a honda put a rod through the block I get a little happier.
some one post that corvet vs. s2000 over on one of there boards and see if any of them have any thing intellgent to say about it.
That is in writing to me proof why the push rod vett engine is better than the OHC lawn mower engine in the honda car.
What gets more chicks honda or vett?
Why one turbos make more power at 6psi than the other.
Well the turbine side has a lot to do with it for one, a larger turbine makes less of a restriction higher up in the rpm scale.
Compressor has a lot to do with it also you chang the trim and compressor dia. to some thing better suited to your appication you make more power.
If you have a turbo on your car and put a nother one on your car and it makes more power you found a better matched turbo for your setup.
Stupid ricers say "this turbo flows way more air into my car at 6psi than that last turbo did @ 6psi" because they don't know how to mach a turbo to there car first of all or they wouldn't have to up grade the turbo with no other mods being done in the mean time.
Turms like engine VE, trim, a/r, compresser map mean nothing to most of them. If that guy ran a turbo shop he could school you in how to match a turbo to any piston driven car.
Not, "we like to put T4/T3 turbos in our cars", "that's an compressor map", "puting a turbo on a V8 is totaly different than putting one on a honda" you hear that from the people that know every thing about putting turbos on imports, " buick-grand-national?!?" pre 90's turbo is un known to most of them.
06-10-2004, 10:50 PM
#9
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
Posts: 2,743
Back to the main question. . .
He is partly right about 6 psi = 6 psi regardless of the source.
The density of the air in the intake manifold is the bottom line with FI power production.
If a tiny turbo makes 6 psi at 200 deg. F, and a huge turbo makes 6 psi at 200 deg. F on the same engine, they will make the same power.
However. . . sometimes a smaller turbo can't supply the requested amount of boost. A stock MR2 turbo cranked up to 18 psi will lose boost on top-end because the turbo can't keep up.
Also. . . larger turbos are generally more efficient at the higher boost/flow ranges. This means they will produce cooler boost, which will make more power in the end.
But. . . some Civic's might run 9's, but this will definitely happen:
http://www.teamnabr.com/videos/civicreality.wmv
Mike
He is partly right about 6 psi = 6 psi regardless of the source.
The density of the air in the intake manifold is the bottom line with FI power production.
If a tiny turbo makes 6 psi at 200 deg. F, and a huge turbo makes 6 psi at 200 deg. F on the same engine, they will make the same power.
However. . . sometimes a smaller turbo can't supply the requested amount of boost. A stock MR2 turbo cranked up to 18 psi will lose boost on top-end because the turbo can't keep up.
Also. . . larger turbos are generally more efficient at the higher boost/flow ranges. This means they will produce cooler boost, which will make more power in the end.
But. . . some Civic's might run 9's, but this will definitely happen:
http://www.teamnabr.com/videos/civicreality.wmv
Mike
06-10-2004, 11:55 PM
#10
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: New Bern, NC USA
Posts: 1,234
We have a guy around here with an RSX and he is running just over 20psi. He has upgraded pistons and rods. He has cut some high 1.6s but is still spinning. Times are high 11s @ 122ish. He was at the track a couple of weeks ago and raced a Neon. He got the jump on him but after the 1/8 the Neon came by a pulled off hard. Ran an 11.8 @ 128. That is pretty respectable for a fwd. That wasn't even the RT. Some marine built up a slow Neon.
06-11-2004, 12:30 AM
#11
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Juan PR
Posts: 3,083
This is the same never ending story...
HP/L means that their power band is pretty darn high... but it doesn't mean anything...
I will be racing a turbo Integra when my car is ready... what do you guys think?
HP/L means that their power band is pretty darn high... but it doesn't mean anything...
I will be racing a turbo Integra when my car is ready... what do you guys think?
06-11-2004, 03:31 AM
#12
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 4,784
Originally posted by The Highlander
This is the same never ending story...
HP/L means that their power band is pretty darn high... but it doesn't mean anything...
I will be racing a turbo Integra when my car is ready... what do you guys think?
This is the same never ending story...
HP/L means that their power band is pretty darn high... but it doesn't mean anything...
I will be racing a turbo Integra when my car is ready... what do you guys think?
06-11-2004, 07:26 AM
#13
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Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 2,784
Originally posted by The Highlander
This is the same never ending story...
HP/L means that their power band is pretty darn high... but it doesn't mean anything...
I will be racing a turbo Integra when my car is ready... what do you guys think?
This is the same never ending story...
HP/L means that their power band is pretty darn high... but it doesn't mean anything...
I will be racing a turbo Integra when my car is ready... what do you guys think?
j/k
06-11-2004, 06:15 PM
#14
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Columbia, SC, USA
Posts: 746
You know, 3 years ago on this board, I would have expected some knowledgeable posts regarding imports. It seems that as the price of an f-body decreases, so does the average IQ of the owners, if you look at the posts here. It appears that Slim and IDOXLR8 are the only ones that have a clue when it comes to import potential.
It might not be your cup of tea, but imports can be fast too. Are the majority of them? No, but then again, neither are the MAJORITY of LT1 camaros. I know more than a few LT1s running mid 15s stock. Not every camaro runs 14.2s stock. I know people with N/A stock motor CRXs running better than 15s.
I am an AUTO enthusiast, not simply a camaro enthusiast. If some of you guys would open your eyes to what is possible, and what HAS been done, you might be impressed. Plus, the old saying goes, keep your friends close, your enemys closer. That could reference any kind of other vehicle, in knowing what is possible for them to do.
The local street racing domestic crowd around here is FINALLY learning what imports can do. There are a LOT of mid - low 10 second mustangs and camaros around here, and they will win most of the time, and that is due to traction. Duh, everyone knows rearwheel drive is better than front for drag racing. They have finally learned not to race from a roll, or they get their @ss handed to them, BADLY. An integra with 400 WHP from a roll is FREAKIN INSANE. You'd better roll out with a pretty stout turbo V-8 making over 600 rwhp to stay with it.
Anywho, this is all pointless rambling to this crowd, it seems. If I can give any last advice, it would be to put down the Car Craft, cut the mullet, and go find some import owners that KNOW what their doing. They ARE out there. You MIGHT learn something.
It might not be your cup of tea, but imports can be fast too. Are the majority of them? No, but then again, neither are the MAJORITY of LT1 camaros. I know more than a few LT1s running mid 15s stock. Not every camaro runs 14.2s stock. I know people with N/A stock motor CRXs running better than 15s.
I am an AUTO enthusiast, not simply a camaro enthusiast. If some of you guys would open your eyes to what is possible, and what HAS been done, you might be impressed. Plus, the old saying goes, keep your friends close, your enemys closer. That could reference any kind of other vehicle, in knowing what is possible for them to do.
The local street racing domestic crowd around here is FINALLY learning what imports can do. There are a LOT of mid - low 10 second mustangs and camaros around here, and they will win most of the time, and that is due to traction. Duh, everyone knows rearwheel drive is better than front for drag racing. They have finally learned not to race from a roll, or they get their @ss handed to them, BADLY. An integra with 400 WHP from a roll is FREAKIN INSANE. You'd better roll out with a pretty stout turbo V-8 making over 600 rwhp to stay with it.
Anywho, this is all pointless rambling to this crowd, it seems. If I can give any last advice, it would be to put down the Car Craft, cut the mullet, and go find some import owners that KNOW what their doing. They ARE out there. You MIGHT learn something.
06-11-2004, 06:29 PM
#15
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Juan PR
Posts: 3,083
You know... i beg to disagree....
with 600rwhp it wasn't a matter of "keeping up" with them. it was a matter of beating them so badly that they never want to race anymore... to the point that they have brung the best and always with the tail in their legs...
The reality is that if you go to any local track you will see.. most of them in the 16s.. a little bunch in the 15.. some in the 14s.. rare are in the 13s and the exclusively fast and insane are in the 12s... the gods in the 11s.. so you do the math...
There are a few 10s hondas here.. but when you see them, they dont exactly qualify as a streetable car... The first thing is that they need race gas.. that alone makes a car not worthy to be called a true street car...
You go to the track you see MOST of the lt1s in the 14s... a good bunch in the 13s ... a few in the 12s ... some in the 11s... see the trend???
There are things that cant be replaced unless certain things are met... and its cubic inches.. all being equal the honda guy will never have a chance against a bigger engine...
Imports can run.. any car can run, but it will not be done cheaper than we do it, let alone with the reliability...
The thing i hate the most is... they come with a big turboand lots of nitrous with a car that looks like cheese.. you beat them and you have a v8 with a supercharger and its not fair... The same excuse.. mine is a 4 cylinder.. well.. then why did you come to race me??? you came for gold and got stolen.
The reality is that the civic and import crowd think they are above the domestic crowd, and they all utterly believe that the japanese technology is so much better because they have a vtec and twin cams that they forget who makes more power and consumes less fuel.
THe reality is that my pops z06 after my tune would yield 36mpg on the highway and around 24 city... nothing near what an s2000 will give you with 1/3 the displacement.
Mod them all and race them all and you will see where the difference lies...
One wake up call... the majority of the import RULEZZZ people are people that do, re do and redo and nothing of reading... and for the majority of the people that do know in this board i bet they can get a 4 cylinder and make it run, one thing applies to the other.. so dont come and say that we might learn something... Maybe we did... maybe we read and that it was why we got stuck on with the camaros and v8s and not with imports.. at least that was my case. I read, read, searched and searched before deciding that the camaro v8 was going to be my platform of choice...
If i where to do it again, i would choose the corvette c5 although its more expensive.
Just on a little background.. i live on an island where the import movement began.... So i've been there and done that... And i live in the place where all honda civics have h22... I see them everyday on the track...
As a matter of fact the fastest 4 cylinder here is an AWD 4gs3 mitus galant... that runs on turbo and nitrous and does 10.2@139mph... not an easy car.. obviously the car has no interiors and its not street legal, but its till faster... My goal is... with pump gas... scrape him.
with 600rwhp it wasn't a matter of "keeping up" with them. it was a matter of beating them so badly that they never want to race anymore... to the point that they have brung the best and always with the tail in their legs...
The reality is that if you go to any local track you will see.. most of them in the 16s.. a little bunch in the 15.. some in the 14s.. rare are in the 13s and the exclusively fast and insane are in the 12s... the gods in the 11s.. so you do the math...
There are a few 10s hondas here.. but when you see them, they dont exactly qualify as a streetable car... The first thing is that they need race gas.. that alone makes a car not worthy to be called a true street car...
You go to the track you see MOST of the lt1s in the 14s... a good bunch in the 13s ... a few in the 12s ... some in the 11s... see the trend???
There are things that cant be replaced unless certain things are met... and its cubic inches.. all being equal the honda guy will never have a chance against a bigger engine...
Imports can run.. any car can run, but it will not be done cheaper than we do it, let alone with the reliability...
The thing i hate the most is... they come with a big turboand lots of nitrous with a car that looks like cheese.. you beat them and you have a v8 with a supercharger and its not fair... The same excuse.. mine is a 4 cylinder.. well.. then why did you come to race me??? you came for gold and got stolen.
The reality is that the civic and import crowd think they are above the domestic crowd, and they all utterly believe that the japanese technology is so much better because they have a vtec and twin cams that they forget who makes more power and consumes less fuel.
THe reality is that my pops z06 after my tune would yield 36mpg on the highway and around 24 city... nothing near what an s2000 will give you with 1/3 the displacement.
Mod them all and race them all and you will see where the difference lies...
One wake up call... the majority of the import RULEZZZ people are people that do, re do and redo and nothing of reading... and for the majority of the people that do know in this board i bet they can get a 4 cylinder and make it run, one thing applies to the other.. so dont come and say that we might learn something... Maybe we did... maybe we read and that it was why we got stuck on with the camaros and v8s and not with imports.. at least that was my case. I read, read, searched and searched before deciding that the camaro v8 was going to be my platform of choice...
If i where to do it again, i would choose the corvette c5 although its more expensive.
Just on a little background.. i live on an island where the import movement began.... So i've been there and done that... And i live in the place where all honda civics have h22... I see them everyday on the track...
As a matter of fact the fastest 4 cylinder here is an AWD 4gs3 mitus galant... that runs on turbo and nitrous and does 10.2@139mph... not an easy car.. obviously the car has no interiors and its not street legal, but its till faster... My goal is... with pump gas... scrape him.
Last edited by Highlander; 06-11-2004 at 06:34 PM.