Honda Turbo - Is he lieing?
06-11-2004, 08:39 PM
#16
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Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 2,784
I hope my comments did not bring up this arguement. 
You pointed out some good things. Like I said my friend has less than 20K invested in his car and is going 9.8's @152mph. I can not say that about many LT1 cars. Yeah his car is a light and yes he runs race gas. He can run pump gas in his car and drive it on the streets if he wants to. That is the great thing about turbos.
BTW I am an LT1 guy at heart so don't take my post as being anti- LT1's.
You pointed out some good things. Like I said my friend has less than 20K invested in his car and is going 9.8's @152mph. I can not say that about many LT1 cars. Yeah his car is a light and yes he runs race gas. He can run pump gas in his car and drive it on the streets if he wants to. That is the great thing about turbos. BTW I am an LT1 guy at heart so don't take my post as being anti- LT1's.
Originally posted by The Highlander
You know... i beg to disagree....
with 600rwhp it wasn't a matter of "keeping up" with them. it was a matter of beating them so badly that they never want to race anymore... to the point that they have brung the best and always with the tail in their legs...
The reality is that if you go to any local track you will see.. most of them in the 16s.. a little bunch in the 15.. some in the 14s.. rare are in the 13s and the exclusively fast and insane are in the 12s... the gods in the 11s.. so you do the math...
There are a few 10s hondas here.. but when you see them, they dont exactly qualify as a streetable car... The first thing is that they need race gas.. that alone makes a car not worthy to be called a true street car...
You go to the track you see MOST of the lt1s in the 14s... a good bunch in the 13s ... a few in the 12s ... some in the 11s... see the trend???
There are things that cant be replaced unless certain things are met... and its cubic inches.. all being equal the honda guy will never have a chance against a bigger engine...
Imports can run.. any car can run, but it will not be done cheaper than we do it, let alone with the reliability...
The thing i hate the most is... they come with a big turboand lots of nitrous with a car that looks like cheese.. you beat them and you have a v8 with a supercharger and its not fair... The same excuse.. mine is a 4 cylinder.. well.. then why did you come to race me??? you came for gold and got stolen.
The reality is that the civic and import crowd think they are above the domestic crowd, and they all utterly believe that the japanese technology is so much better because they have a vtec and twin cams that they forget who makes more power and consumes less fuel.
THe reality is that my pops z06 after my tune would yield 36mpg on the highway and around 24 city... nothing near what an s2000 will give you with 1/3 the displacement.
Mod them all and race them all and you will see where the difference lies...
One wake up call... the majority of the import RULEZZZ people are people that do, re do and redo and nothing of reading... and for the majority of the people that do know in this board i bet they can get a 4 cylinder and make it run, one thing applies to the other.. so dont come and say that we might learn something... Maybe we did... maybe we read and that it was why we got stuck on with the camaros and v8s and not with imports.. at least that was my case. I read, read, searched and searched before deciding that the camaro v8 was going to be my platform of choice...
If i where to do it again, i would choose the corvette c5 although its more expensive.
Just on a little background.. i live on an island where the import movement began.... So i've been there and done that... And i live in the place where all honda civics have h22... I see them everyday on the track...
As a matter of fact the fastest 4 cylinder here is an AWD 4gs3 mitus galant... that runs on turbo and nitrous and does 10.2@139mph... not an easy car.. obviously the car has no interiors and its not street legal, but its till faster... My goal is... with pump gas... scrape him.
You know... i beg to disagree....
with 600rwhp it wasn't a matter of "keeping up" with them. it was a matter of beating them so badly that they never want to race anymore... to the point that they have brung the best and always with the tail in their legs...
The reality is that if you go to any local track you will see.. most of them in the 16s.. a little bunch in the 15.. some in the 14s.. rare are in the 13s and the exclusively fast and insane are in the 12s... the gods in the 11s.. so you do the math...
There are a few 10s hondas here.. but when you see them, they dont exactly qualify as a streetable car... The first thing is that they need race gas.. that alone makes a car not worthy to be called a true street car...
You go to the track you see MOST of the lt1s in the 14s... a good bunch in the 13s ... a few in the 12s ... some in the 11s... see the trend???
There are things that cant be replaced unless certain things are met... and its cubic inches.. all being equal the honda guy will never have a chance against a bigger engine...
Imports can run.. any car can run, but it will not be done cheaper than we do it, let alone with the reliability...
The thing i hate the most is... they come with a big turboand lots of nitrous with a car that looks like cheese.. you beat them and you have a v8 with a supercharger and its not fair... The same excuse.. mine is a 4 cylinder.. well.. then why did you come to race me??? you came for gold and got stolen.
The reality is that the civic and import crowd think they are above the domestic crowd, and they all utterly believe that the japanese technology is so much better because they have a vtec and twin cams that they forget who makes more power and consumes less fuel.
THe reality is that my pops z06 after my tune would yield 36mpg on the highway and around 24 city... nothing near what an s2000 will give you with 1/3 the displacement.
Mod them all and race them all and you will see where the difference lies...
One wake up call... the majority of the import RULEZZZ people are people that do, re do and redo and nothing of reading... and for the majority of the people that do know in this board i bet they can get a 4 cylinder and make it run, one thing applies to the other.. so dont come and say that we might learn something... Maybe we did... maybe we read and that it was why we got stuck on with the camaros and v8s and not with imports.. at least that was my case. I read, read, searched and searched before deciding that the camaro v8 was going to be my platform of choice...
If i where to do it again, i would choose the corvette c5 although its more expensive.
Just on a little background.. i live on an island where the import movement began.... So i've been there and done that... And i live in the place where all honda civics have h22... I see them everyday on the track...
As a matter of fact the fastest 4 cylinder here is an AWD 4gs3 mitus galant... that runs on turbo and nitrous and does 10.2@139mph... not an easy car.. obviously the car has no interiors and its not street legal, but its till faster... My goal is... with pump gas... scrape him.
06-11-2004, 09:38 PM
#17
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Juan PR
Posts: 3,083
it wasn't your comments....
20k its his figure, he'll probably wont tell you all the fine details as that is where all the cash goes around.. and 152mph are low 9s high 8s...
The reality is that if you mod a v8 to the same extent as that one you will get even more power..
The reality is that when that car hits the street its not a 9s@150mph machine... most probably a 12s car....
20k its his figure, he'll probably wont tell you all the fine details as that is where all the cash goes around.. and 152mph are low 9s high 8s...
The reality is that if you mod a v8 to the same extent as that one you will get even more power..
The reality is that when that car hits the street its not a 9s@150mph machine... most probably a 12s car....
06-11-2004, 10:14 PM
#18
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 4,784
Yeah, once you back the boost down and run normal gas in it instead of rocket fuel, it's as fast as a bolt on LS1 car.
Did I mention that Hondas look funny doing a FWD burnout?
Did I mention that Hondas look funny doing a FWD burnout?
Last edited by 97WS6SCharged; 06-12-2004 at 06:09 AM.
06-12-2004, 03:38 PM
#20
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: New Bern, NC USA
Posts: 1,234
20k its his figure, he'll probably wont tell you all the fine details as that is where all the cash goes around.. and 152mph are low 9s high 8s...
Not really, especially for a car that isn't hooking.
Also, the fact that these cars are fast from a roll isn't a lie. I have seen a lot of races that are lost because of the way the start is. It happened a couple of weeks ago. This low 11 second Nova got his *** handed to him by a 240 sx with. With both on slicks at the track and a tree, the Nova might have won, but up top the 240 outpowered him on the street. True, the 240 is rwd too, but you get the point. I see a lot of guys sit these fwds out in front and give them the break. Well all the time they spent catching up, the fwds are finally hooking by the time the car behind them catches them, and the fwd walk away with a better power-weight ratio.
Just giving examples, not saying that is how it is always.
Btw, the Rsx I mentioned earlier has 344 at the wheels. And running traps at about 122.
Not really, especially for a car that isn't hooking.
Also, the fact that these cars are fast from a roll isn't a lie. I have seen a lot of races that are lost because of the way the start is. It happened a couple of weeks ago. This low 11 second Nova got his *** handed to him by a 240 sx with. With both on slicks at the track and a tree, the Nova might have won, but up top the 240 outpowered him on the street. True, the 240 is rwd too, but you get the point. I see a lot of guys sit these fwds out in front and give them the break. Well all the time they spent catching up, the fwds are finally hooking by the time the car behind them catches them, and the fwd walk away with a better power-weight ratio.
Just giving examples, not saying that is how it is always.
Btw, the Rsx I mentioned earlier has 344 at the wheels. And running traps at about 122.
06-12-2004, 03:56 PM
#21
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Juan PR
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The reality is that on a roll and up to 150mph... the bigger engine will most likely win... I race from a roll and i have yet to loose 1!
Now im coming with 100more rwhp... I know that there is someone faster than you... and some day i will get my a$$ handed.. but... i dont think it will be against a 4 cylinder IN STREET Conditions...
Im sure there are a one or 2 9s civics that would kill me on the street.. but when we both look at the interiors of the cars and the type of fuel being used and that I have A/C Stereo Power everything... then what is the better option?
Now im coming with 100more rwhp... I know that there is someone faster than you... and some day i will get my a$$ handed.. but... i dont think it will be against a 4 cylinder IN STREET Conditions...
Im sure there are a one or 2 9s civics that would kill me on the street.. but when we both look at the interiors of the cars and the type of fuel being used and that I have A/C Stereo Power everything... then what is the better option?
Last edited by Highlander; 06-12-2004 at 03:58 PM.
06-12-2004, 04:03 PM
#23
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Location: San Juan PR
Posts: 3,083
my goal is 9.99@140mph with pump gas, full weight full everything.
but that is a "reference" time as i am not planning to take it to track...
but i should be "able" to run those times...
when i had 607 i raced agains some 10sec cars and i rolled by w/o much difficulty.
So maybe with a good set of slicks I was probably running 135-136mph and low 10s.. 10.4x 10.3x maybe... so i expect with 100rwhp more a gain of .4 and 5mph or so...
maybe i'll get there maybe i dont...
but when you see the size supercharger im putting in and what would equate in turbo manners i dont think a small 2L engine will spool that thing w/o the help of some n2o to boot....
I bet that counting the cars on this board i should be #20!! jajajajajaja
but that is a "reference" time as i am not planning to take it to track...
but i should be "able" to run those times...
when i had 607 i raced agains some 10sec cars and i rolled by w/o much difficulty.
So maybe with a good set of slicks I was probably running 135-136mph and low 10s.. 10.4x 10.3x maybe... so i expect with 100rwhp more a gain of .4 and 5mph or so...
maybe i'll get there maybe i dont...
but when you see the size supercharger im putting in and what would equate in turbo manners i dont think a small 2L engine will spool that thing w/o the help of some n2o to boot....
I bet that counting the cars on this board i should be #20!! jajajajajaja
Last edited by Highlander; 06-12-2004 at 04:09 PM.
06-12-2004, 04:12 PM
#24
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Location: Columbia, SC, USA
Posts: 746
Highlander, I understand where you are coming from, but I'm a bit confused. You seem to think that there is no way a honda/import can be in the 9s for 20K or less. Curious, how much do you have invested in your setup? I would guess WELL over 20K. Probably closer to 40K with the bottom end/machining blower, fuel system, etc. Also, why won't the car go to the track? 607 is simply a number and you could spin your way to a 14.5 @ 140. What good is that? Thats what imports do.
Back to the money. I am going to presume that you chose your car for price/performance, since that is what you alluded to in your previous post. If that is the case, why not go Fox body stang. They have a LOT better bang/buck performance. I personally know over 5 people that have full weight cars in 9s, be it blower/nitrous or motor. And those are the people that WILL say what their car runs. I know a guy running a full weight stang, with heads, stock cam, intake, and a dry kit running 9.7s @ 139. I know of 2 local street cars in the 8s. Yup, 8s. Again, why did you choose the F-body?
Back to the money. I am going to presume that you chose your car for price/performance, since that is what you alluded to in your previous post. If that is the case, why not go Fox body stang. They have a LOT better bang/buck performance. I personally know over 5 people that have full weight cars in 9s, be it blower/nitrous or motor. And those are the people that WILL say what their car runs. I know a guy running a full weight stang, with heads, stock cam, intake, and a dry kit running 9.7s @ 139. I know of 2 local street cars in the 8s. Yup, 8s. Again, why did you choose the F-body?
06-12-2004, 04:28 PM
#25
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Location: San Juan PR
Posts: 3,083
1st.. i dont care if i do 19@10000MPH... i really dont...
because when I step down that track... i'll be a 100000mph car period...
I have invested in my setup around 19k-22k not more...
WHy didn't i get a fox body? because the camaro was a better chassis and it was an all around better car although it was heavier... I liked the idea that the car came already with a T56 and I didn't have to buy it as an upgrade... I liked the idea that bigger engines where possible.
There are "cheaper" alternatives.. the 87-93 mustang is a better thing for the track as its a lot lighter and they have a much more robust aftermarket than we do... but i wanted a true street car that could handle the power and my heavy foot. I just didn't feel the mustang was the best platform as they break too much, from what i have seen...
I dont doubt the fast mustangs nor the fast hondas.... i doubt the price they are quoting... I can simply shout.. hey i have spent on my car only 9k to get to the 9s... they might have to believe me because maybe the car was 1/2 done and all i did was finish it. but its not the case.. i put this engine from the ground up.
Basically I have
5K shortblock
3K heads
1k intake
1K Clutch
1K ignition
1.2k fuel system
3k supercharger system including the YS
1k vortech aftercooler
1k Rear suspension.
+ miscelaneous, which is where i have eaten up some $, MBA products... Wires... Service for certain things... brakes... different this and different that...
in the end it will get to the 20-22k mark i told you... if i want to get to the low 9s with the setup i have i guess is just a matter of good fuel, good tires and a good rear and crank up teh boost... sell the aftercooler and build either a front mount or a bigger air to water. which will be around 1k more if i seel the current aftercooler... I can strip the car out (no cost) remove A/C remove this ... remove that... it can be done, but i wont do it as i want to USE The car...
Maybe i'll need a better EMS..
Maybe all my talk is BS, it may be.. but i've searched and researched the hondas and pretty much everything that was available before deciding that i wanted a camaro lt1... Actually i wanted a camaro lt1 converted to ls6.
because when I step down that track... i'll be a 100000mph car period...
I have invested in my setup around 19k-22k not more...
WHy didn't i get a fox body? because the camaro was a better chassis and it was an all around better car although it was heavier... I liked the idea that the car came already with a T56 and I didn't have to buy it as an upgrade... I liked the idea that bigger engines where possible.
There are "cheaper" alternatives.. the 87-93 mustang is a better thing for the track as its a lot lighter and they have a much more robust aftermarket than we do... but i wanted a true street car that could handle the power and my heavy foot. I just didn't feel the mustang was the best platform as they break too much, from what i have seen...
I dont doubt the fast mustangs nor the fast hondas.... i doubt the price they are quoting... I can simply shout.. hey i have spent on my car only 9k to get to the 9s... they might have to believe me because maybe the car was 1/2 done and all i did was finish it. but its not the case.. i put this engine from the ground up.
Basically I have
5K shortblock
3K heads
1k intake
1K Clutch
1K ignition
1.2k fuel system
3k supercharger system including the YS
1k vortech aftercooler
1k Rear suspension.
+ miscelaneous, which is where i have eaten up some $, MBA products... Wires... Service for certain things... brakes... different this and different that...
in the end it will get to the 20-22k mark i told you... if i want to get to the low 9s with the setup i have i guess is just a matter of good fuel, good tires and a good rear and crank up teh boost... sell the aftercooler and build either a front mount or a bigger air to water. which will be around 1k more if i seel the current aftercooler... I can strip the car out (no cost) remove A/C remove this ... remove that... it can be done, but i wont do it as i want to USE The car...
Maybe i'll need a better EMS..
Maybe all my talk is BS, it may be.. but i've searched and researched the hondas and pretty much everything that was available before deciding that i wanted a camaro lt1... Actually i wanted a camaro lt1 converted to ls6.
Last edited by Highlander; 06-12-2004 at 04:31 PM.
06-12-2004, 05:27 PM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: frederick MD.
Posts: 310
This honda could take you no problem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...&category=6254
Is that funny or what did he meen to say the 1/8th?
Jeff
96 SS BLOWN
96 TA 396 D1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...&category=6254
Is that funny or what did he meen to say the 1/8th?
Jeff
96 SS BLOWN
96 TA 396 D1
06-13-2004, 02:08 AM
#29
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 339
I could make a gocart run 6's if I spent enough money, and found a dumb enough driver to drive the damn thing. Would this make gocarts wonderful if I spent the time and money to do this. No.
Honda's still SUCK, regardless of wether or not a team of race car builders built a FWD, full tubular chasis drag car, and put CRX or Civic (or whatever Honda) body panels on it. Show me a full interior, pump gas, FWD Honda, that runs low 11's or faster, on a D.O.T. approved tire, and is daily driver reliable. GOOD LUCK!
This is possible with a small block Chevy. Anyone, and I stress ANYONE, can do this, and can do it relialbly. This is the beauty of the small block Chevrolet. Or just about any domestic V-8 for that matter.
I work at an Acura dealership, in the service department. I've worked there for 6 years. All of the Acura's that are somewhat quick, eventually come to the dealership on a tow truck. I see it every week, with my own eyes. I worked at a Honda dealership before that for 1 year. Same thing.
BOTTOM LINE: Rice Burners are NOT reliable with horse power. If they're fast, they won't last!
Honda's still SUCK, regardless of wether or not a team of race car builders built a FWD, full tubular chasis drag car, and put CRX or Civic (or whatever Honda) body panels on it. Show me a full interior, pump gas, FWD Honda, that runs low 11's or faster, on a D.O.T. approved tire, and is daily driver reliable. GOOD LUCK!
This is possible with a small block Chevy. Anyone, and I stress ANYONE, can do this, and can do it relialbly. This is the beauty of the small block Chevrolet. Or just about any domestic V-8 for that matter.
I work at an Acura dealership, in the service department. I've worked there for 6 years. All of the Acura's that are somewhat quick, eventually come to the dealership on a tow truck. I see it every week, with my own eyes. I worked at a Honda dealership before that for 1 year. Same thing.
BOTTOM LINE: Rice Burners are NOT reliable with horse power. If they're fast, they won't last!
Last edited by '68LT1camaro; 06-13-2004 at 02:12 AM.
06-13-2004, 02:32 AM
#30
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Juan PR
Posts: 3,083
Amen...
Its like a friend of mine with a supercharger 13psi boost s2000 novi 1000.
He did 357rwhp... i would get him with the z06 on the expressway w/o downshifting... plain 4th from 60roll.. bye bye no torque... if he shifts... he lost... if he keeps it... oops.. sorry... still.. real racing... uuufffff he lost big big time.. and I only did 340rwhp on that z06.. he is lighter than me.. more power? why doesn't he ourtun me.. as a matter of fact.. why cant he keep up at least? he went to the track he did 13.15s or so...
The reality is.. he has broken the rear 4x (not a track car actually) he broke the trans twice.. Shafts twice.. etc etc etc etc... luckily that engine has held up... he just went down to 8psi boost to keep it reliable at least.
Been there.. seen them and had them... they break STOCK!! imagine modded.
Its like a friend of mine with a supercharger 13psi boost s2000 novi 1000.
He did 357rwhp... i would get him with the z06 on the expressway w/o downshifting... plain 4th from 60roll.. bye bye no torque... if he shifts... he lost... if he keeps it... oops.. sorry... still.. real racing... uuufffff he lost big big time.. and I only did 340rwhp on that z06.. he is lighter than me.. more power? why doesn't he ourtun me.. as a matter of fact.. why cant he keep up at least? he went to the track he did 13.15s or so...
The reality is.. he has broken the rear 4x (not a track car actually) he broke the trans twice.. Shafts twice.. etc etc etc etc... luckily that engine has held up... he just went down to 8psi boost to keep it reliable at least.
Been there.. seen them and had them... they break STOCK!! imagine modded.