Well.... over nighted the Opti and a new Opti Pigtail and it was here to greet me when I came home from work. Tested them before installing it by just hooking up the harness to the new one, turned on the key, spun the opti. The red blinking light on the LTCC was gone and I could hear the spark plugs sparking. Cool ... So I installed it. Then swapped the injectors back to the mototrons. Reflashed the PCM with Bryans tune and fired it up.
IT RUNS THE SAME G*D DAMNED WAY AS IT HAD!!!! Running on 6 cylinders at the most.
UNbelievable! This is so sad it's funny.
I tried relashing it with the timing advanced 2 degrees across the board since it starts so weakly. Doesn't matter.
Ill get a timing light tomorrow and see it that reveals anything.
The scanner says it's got 32 degrees at 850 rpm now. It did say 30 before I added the extra timing.

 

Why not try putting your timing light on each individual cylinder while the motor is running to verify that all 8 cylinders are getting spark? Just pull the trigger and watch the strobe to make sure you are getting constant spark (especially when you raise the rpms). Have you thoroughly checked your ignition wires? They are sometimes easy to overlook.

How do the plugs look after all those parts were changed? Still have one that looks "shiney & wet"? A "dead" cylinder or one with a miss will not show up in the O2 sensor reading as a rich condition because an O2 sensor can only read oxygen not raw fuel.

Not that this would be causing your problem and not knowing the particulars of your engine and your boost level, but 32* of timing seems a bit high. Is the timing retarded as rpm, boost and/or load starts to increase? Just curious.

 

wow what a mission good luck on your build

 

I was just adding timing to see if it made it run better or worse. The timing that Bryan gave me in his tune is less that both those. I've tried almost everything that's rational and now resorting to irrational, hahaha...

I just put my old OBDII pcm on there to see if the swap makes it run any different. True, it's setup for my old solid roller motor but I just want to see if it idles on all 8 cylinders. If not, I'm going to assume the cam is in there either way advanced or way retarded.

Here's a snip from an article where this magazine write up found the cam in their motor installed incorrectly (retarded valve opening)
Fouled plugs, lack of power, hard restarts, and a roasting intake manifold with normal water temperature. All of the above were symptoms that lead us to believe that the cam in our 460 had been degreed incorrectly. Specifically, we theorized that it may have been installed retarded based on the symptoms listed above. Retarding a cam is often performed to increase top end power at the expense of low end torque. Not a good condition for street use.


When a cam is retarded too far, a number of problems will arise due to the valve events all taking place too late. When an intake valve opens too late, the initial amount of air and fuel drawn into the chamber is reduced and exhaust gasses will not be effectively purged from the chamber. When an exhaust valve closes too late it can allow spent exhaust gases to enter the intake port. This is also called reversion.

 

I'll refer back to my earlier post...Did you check to see that you are getting good, constant spark to all 8 cylinders and how did the plugs look after you replaced all those parts??? Advancing or retarding ignition timing isn't going to fix the problem you're describing. Did you install the camshaft and was valve timing checked??? If you are still seeing one or two plugs that look "new" and the others are black, this would seem to indicate your problem. Did you thoroughly check your ignition wires for poor connections, burns arcing, proper resistance, etc???

 

on the spark - yes.

Look of the plugs - wet fouled, sooty

My engine builder installed the cam. Normally I just install it dot to dot(6 and 12 o'clock). My engine builder is very intimate with SBC but mine was the first LT1 he's ever done. He assured me he got the degree just right to the cam cards specs from Bret Bauer. But he had no idea about the optisparks shutter wheel being affected.

The plug wires are brand new. I've pulled each of them and examined them about four times now(at least, my eyes are getting blurry). I put my 3rd set of plugs in there last night. I've put each plug up on the valve cover, grounded it, turned on the key, turned over the motor with a remote starter to watch each coil (LS1 Coil near plug ignition), it's plug wire and it's plug. They snap a bright spark every time. I bought a timing light today but I've got a data conversion I've been prepping for about 3 months and we're kicking it off at 5am Sunday morning. I've been up since 1:45am testing it over and over and I'm toast. I wish I could go out to the garage and figure this thing out. Thanks for trying to help me

 

Update. After reading SEVERAL accounts where people reported a timing set off a tooth could make a car run like mine has been, I pulled the timing cover off and had a look. I must mention that this engine has a custom and expensive turbo cam spec'd out by Bret Bauer and that it had specific information for degreeing the cam. When I provided all the information to my engine builder (gave him the cam card) he went after it and afterwards, stated he had to move it 2 degrees ( I don't remember now if it was 2 deg advance or 2 degrees retarded) to get the Intake Center Line method to line up. I thought, "Great! He's thorough!". Well, after all the stuff I've replaced and checked, I decided it HAD to be the cam phasing so I pulled off the timing cover. Only to see it's dot to dot. WTF?.... Add to that, the timing cover bolts were all finger tight. Now it looks like I've got to get a degree kit and check it out for sure myself.

 

all you have to do is line up dot to dot why do people make this much more then it is as if they were running 7-8 sec rides on here.

dot to dot has got me to the 10's without degreeing the cam.

 

I think you're missing the point here. That being, the engine builder told me he had to adv or ret (he couldn't recall which way) the cam 2 degrees rather than straight up/dot to dot. THe timing set had multiple keyways (CompCam Timing set) 2 degrees advanced, straight up and 2 degrees retarded.

 

Found my cam specs. Going to pick up the cam degree kit plus the nut you put on the crank to turn it over. I have to wait till about noon today to meet the guy (Fbody Buddy of course! The best guys/girls on the planet!) to pick up his kit, accessories. I did a little more research (prompted by fellow LS1Tech'r Chuck Norton. Thanks Chuck!) and found that not only did my engine builder not adv/retard the cam 2 degrees as he'd stated, the timing set (CLO-9-3145) doesn't even have a provision for just 2 degrees. It has 3 keyways. 4 degrees Advanced, "Standard/Dot-to-Dot" and 4 degrees Retarded. (For those in Rio Linda, that means you can't *just* add/subtract 2 degrees with this timing set). Something stinks here (and it's not just that shirt I've been wearing while under the car) Using the ICL (Intake CenterLine method) the cam should show a 112 ICL if it's degreed properly.

 

It seems you're chasing the problem in the wrong direction. Although the car will not run well if the cam timing is a tooth off, I don't see it having the symtoms you're describing. Additionally, if the cam timing is only off a couple of degrees, this is even less of a problem. If the timing gear set you used has different keyways cut in it to advance/retard the timing 4 degrees and after checking the cam it was determined that it needed to be advanced of retarded only 2 degrees, your engine builder may have installed a 2 degree bushing in the cam gear where the cam dowel pin mates with the cam gear.

You've mentioned that six or seven of the spark plugs are black heavily sooted which indicates those cylinders are overly rich. You also mentioned that one or two plugs are white (new looking) and shiny which indicates they are not firing and are gas or oil soaked. You need to determine why those plugs are not firing. ie. no or weak spark, crossed or bad ignition wires, oil fouled, excessive fuel in those cylinders, etc. etc. You also mentioned you have switched from 30 lb. injectors to 60 lb. injectors. What is the injector constant set at in the PCM. Are they high or low impedance injectors? Did the car ever run properly since you completed the build??? If you have a timing light, put it on the cylinders plugs don't appear to be firing when the engine is running to chech for proper spark. It will be different than just grounding the plugs to the v.c. and cranking over the motor, you need to be sure they are firing with cylinder pressure.

 

I noticed you have three threads going here with different bits of information about the same problem...makes it a little more difficult to follow what's going on and be able to offer some help

 

Well, much to my chagrin, the cam is right on the ICL of the cam card. 112. I'm taking a water break, then putting the timing cover, etc back on. I'll find it... someday. Lol... At least I've eliminated another question mark.

 

The reason I went after the cam was the many references to this when doing searches on Google. I found several that matched. Even some writeups from Car Magazines. Hard starting, poor performance, backfiring, bucking, wet fouling the plugs.

The builder didn't use offset bushings nor the alternate keyways in the crank gear nor an offset woodruff key.

It has never ran well since the first moment it fired up, without the turbo or with. Runs like crap no matter what.

With the 60 lbs, the injector constant was 60. (Alternately, I tried 61 and 62 to see if that would abate the richness but it appeared to be unaffected). With the 28 lb LSx injectors, a tuner told me to set them up as 24 because the these injectors were rated as 28# but at an elevated factory fuel pressure of 50+. It didn't make one bit of difference.

I bought a timing light and fuel pressure gauge Thursday so I'll be trying your last suggestion tomorrow. I had taken the rockers off during the cam degree effort to lessen the resistance when turning over the motor to line up the cam Intake CenterLine. I reinstalled them with a 1/4 turn for the lifter preload.
Thanks for your input

 

I had initiated each one as a separate possibility hoping they would catch someones attention with a similar (resolved) issue. But I did find myself having to update each.