anyone ever done it??

 

I looked into the F1R, to the point of ordering it and returning it for an F1. I'm sure it could be done, but it would be difficult to fit on a 4th gen with all the accessories. Looking at it and making some measurements made that obvious. When I did some hard thinking about it, I realized it wasn't worth the trouble. The F1 flows 1525cfm. This is more than any LT1 I am ever going to build for my street/strip car can use. Maxing out out this blower would be good for 900rwhp at least. My goal for the new setup is in the range of 900rwhp. But ~150hp will be supplied by the N2O and the F1 is easily capable of 750rwhp.

2000cfm oughta be good for ~1200rwhp, more than the F-body platform is good for, as far as I am concerned. If you were building a race car and needed 2000cfm, I'd say go for it. However, FWIW I don't think a 4th gen is a good race car platform in any case.

Rich Krause

 

Well, it isn't a 4th gen but Tory Hess' 3rdgen formula is running one with a 406 and a water/air cooler, 12.5" ET streets, and around 3200lbs i think

just went 9.20 @ 155 with a 1.41 and i belive his initial pass outta the box with it was like 9.30 @ 149 with a 1.51

check out the poweradder board on www.thirdgen.org for recent updates and www.rhodescustomauto.com for pics of his whole setup

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for the 4th gen setup, do a little searching in this forum. I believe someone mentioned it can be done it just takes some notching and some grinding in some places

 

Yeah, that's a nice setup....I was actually looking at it the other day.

Does ATI make a bracket kit for the F1 R on an LT1 with stock style heads??

The kit is actually for a TPI car, I was wondering if the bolt pattern on the head for the bracket is the same and if the crank pulleys are the same.

Any way the 27"x15"x3" intercooler will fit on a 93'??

What will I have to hack up?

Thanks for the reply

 

that isn't a TPI kit from ATI at all.

that is a special made bracket, tensioner, and cog setup that Larry from ASSC in lake bluff, il made for tory. The only thing ATI about it is the procharger and bov LOL

 

The kit I have is for a TPI.....I was only asking if the crank pulley and the bracket is the same for an LT1.

 

The bracket is custom. I would imagine a 12-rib crank pulley would work w/ an F-1R.

If you're serious, give Madman a call.

 

I'm still curious as to what you have in mind. Are you building a race car? If you are keeping all of your accessories you will need to put the SC somewhere on the drivers side. Less stuff to relocate there. There is no "kit" though. You will need a bracket for the drivers side and the have to relocate any interferring parts. They do make a bracket for this purpose, but as I say, depending on your setup there will be components that need to be relocated. As far as pulleys go, yes, you will be able to use a standard pulley. Perhaps you will need spacers for the SC or some modifications to the pulley though. You must get perfect alignment as this is very important for belt retention. Even "kits" often require this kind of fine tuning. Depending on your setup, you may not be able to fit a 12-rib pulley on the crank without relocation of components.

You havn't provided any details of your setup, which in addition to not knowing if you are keeping accessories makes it difficult to give you good advice. Why not just call ATI? I am sure they can answer better than we can!

No offense, it sounds like you are a bit over your head. Have you thought about the fuel system you will need to support 1000+hp?

Rich Krause

 

I will have all accessories but the smog pump,and I have an electric H2O pump now. My major concern was the bracket that attaches to the head....... On the LT1's the coil attaches to the head, and then there is another hole in the head below those two. The bracket in the kit uses 3 holes....Are the holes in the head on the 3rd gen the same as the 4th? Or will I have to make new ones.
I have an Aeromotive 500gph fuel pump to support 1,300hp and will be using -6AN for the lines. The belt on the charger is a cogged setup as well as the pulleys, so that is no concern. It is going on a 383ci LT1 with all the forged internals and bolt ons.

I wasn't concerned with everything else, just the stupid bracket b/c ATI says that the LT1 brackets will cost an additional $400 or so. I am just trying to get out of spending another $400 on this project.

 

Where are you wanting to put the intercooler. It will fit in the front of the nose if you open up the black area where the liscence plate goes, as well as under the car like the stock ati setup.

AS for the blower i would contact ASSC or Sd concepts as they are both well versed in ati products and fitment etc... and what will be needed.

Sounds like it is going to be a wicked car

but unlike some others I personally feel a properly setup fbody is a great package to start with

Gonna post pics of the setup?

Steven

 

That's 1,895 Liters per hour. That's a whole lotta fuel.

 

Depending on the pressure ratio (in other words, if the flow number is at the boost pressure that you’re running), 1525 should be plenty to feed about 1150hp, and 2000cfm should be enough for 1500hp.

I agree with Rich… if you’re worrying about coil mounting and how to mount a bracket, you’re probably a bit over your head here. But in a nutshell, pick a location for the blower, prop it in position, see what mounting points are available in the general area, cut out a bracket out of some plate stock and have at it. I’ve done a couple now and one thing that comes in very handy is if you can leave enough room to weld some kind of ribbing to the plate to stiffen it, then you never have to deal with the assorted belt issues that plague many blower users.

Some people use similar thickness plywood to mock up a bracket, but since I’ve found some large 3/8” and ˝” aluminum plates at the scrap yard and I’ve got a few fairly easy ways to cut them (a good size table saw with a carbide blade will give you cuts that look like they were machined and then polished) I just measured out what I needed and started cutting.

Oh, you may want to drill out and helicoil the bolt holes in the head to get some extra strength and durability.

You know its right when you can lift the engine by the bracket and not worry about bending anything.

 

I agree. The above is a good method for a street car where you need to fit the blower around all of the accessories. It's often easier than moving them all around. I take the lazy man's way out and make a cardboard template and send it to the machine shop! Usually there a couple of hundred bucks in aluminum alone with my route though! OTOH, if the existing bracketry works, that's the easy route. On a race car, a stock bracket will often work beacuse there isn't so much stuff in the way.

Still curious why "stock LT1" wants an F1R. It's a lot of blower. We ordered one yesterday for my buddy's 5.0. He's running ~9.75 at 140mph with a Kenne Bell SC now and want to make it to the 8.90's. The F1 would have put him in the low nines, so we finally decided on the F1R. Of course, a 5.0 is lighter than a 4th gen, but OTOH his motor is only 331ci. An F1 on a stroker SBC oughta put the car (unless it's a 4,000lb pig like mine) darn close to the nines and an F1R solidly in the nines. "Stock LT1": are you prepared to go that fast? A motor to back up the F1R will be $10,000+ and the chassis, roll cage, drivetrain, fuel system, and electronics to make use of the 1,200+hp will be another $10,000 at least. Figure close to $25,000. If you are concerned over $400 I really think you need to look at the whole project.

Rich Krause

 

yea, the small advantage with my way is that I usually get the aluminum for between $1.50 and $3/lb, and I end up paying $25 to get a metal fabricator down the street to weld any bracing that I want onto it (unfortunately I don’t have the 500amp TIG I would need to weld large pieces of ˝” plate with good penetration), and then can sell it for the price of a custom blower bracket

and nice heavy welded bracing looks much better then studding the thing with assorted bolts to try bolt enough crap together to keep things where they should be (like even some factory brackets)

He wants video of himself carrying his engine home in a bucket?

Most people don’t optimize these things nearly as much as they could be. With 1000hp in a 3600# f-body, you’ve got enough hp for an 8.90 in them mid 150’s. If you’re running significantly slower then that and are serious about racing you’d be much better off putting that money in chassis work and development rather then more engine/blower. By getting a better setup chassis you end up with a car that’s easier to drive, more consistent and reliable.

The fact is that it’s kinda ‘sexy’ to build a 1000hp engine or to bolt up the right parts, but what you’ll really get something out of, making sure that everything works well together and is ‘tuned’ right is looked at as sorta ‘bitch work.’ OTOH, when you get it right then it seems like suddenly you’re getting all the props for doing the impossible or of if you really do it right no one believes you when you tell them how you did it.

 

Mark: you are right about times and hp for a race car. But very few 4th gen's are truly optimized for the strip. I know that mine is not. All those accessories weigh a lot and street type suspension is far from optimal for launching hard. That's why there aren't a lot of 4th gens in the eights, no matter how much hp.

This year, I will see what a 4th gen with full equipment and a "road race" type suspension can do with 1,000hp (with an F1, not an F1R!). My guess is high nines. Yep, if I took 500lbs off of it and installed a drag race suspension it would likely approach the eights, but wouldn't be much a street car. It isn't only a knowledge lack that prevents guys like me from going faster, it's a matter of goals and preferences. My goal for the car is to make the world's fastest car that is enjoyable to drive on the street (by my own criteria of "enjoyable"), not to build a half-assed race car.

It still seems to me like the original poster hasn't thought through what he wants.

Rich Krause