TonyJ

That's them and they work great. Here's a pic on my LT1 please excuse the dirt/grease I was racing to beat the engine back in...

http://www.webpeak.com/~tony/bluez/fan1.jpg

If you look close, you'll notice it rests on the bottom on the same support as the radiator. The sides fit exactly between the 4 plastic tabs that hold on the stock fans. Made a ton of room compared to stock. I'll try to get pics of the setup with everything installed later today. I would rate it a 9 out of 10 upgrade in terms of size, flow and ease of install. It just worked...

BTW: with this fan setup, the HD Meizere water pump fits with almost 2" of fan clearance... That adds up to 70% more flow that the CSI. 50 gpm vs. 37 gpm...

Highlander

Did you notice better cooling with those fans?

TonyJ

I think the Meizere was more value in terms of cooling. The fans just let me use the bigger pump. I think the stock fans do a good job, they're just huge. I didn't do this in stages, so I can't really give you a real answer. Was it the pump? fans? Removing the A/C condensor from in front? Setting up the catch can so it was more of a recovery tank? I did all those and it solved my cooling problem. Oh, I also drilled a 32nd" hole in the edge of the thermostat to let some water/air bleed through before the 'stat opens. I think the electric pump systems are a lot harder to get fully bled than the stock wp system. Lastly, I used 2 bottles of redline water wetter and pure water for coolant.

BTW: with the A/C condensor out of the way, I was able to modify my radiator cover to allow me to move the top of the radiator about an inch forward. This also made some room in front of the engine and I've alway thought that an upright radiator forced more air through it. It's not upright yet, but closer...

mongse_1

Just to follow-up as well, my Billy Badass radiator from AFCO won't be ready for another month or so, so I went with a standard Scirocco radiator just to get the car on the track. It is mounted between the two core supports at a very slight rake. Due to it's size, I can only fit one of my fans on it. It's a Flex-A-Lite 12" Trimline and it fits perfect. I'll take some pics of it mounted in the car this weekend and hopefully with the fan pegged on and wired up.

BTW, the AFCO radiator will be considerably wider (28" or so), so I'll have no problem fitting both the 12" pullers on it.

bowtiepwr

>not meaning to beat a "dead horse" , but do you have the part number for these fans ? I believe I will order these .

SMOKNZ

I talked to a Flexalite vendor at the last stop on the Hot Rod Power Tour about using these fans on our car, and he flat out told me that they would not be enough. He recommended their 295 series fans that can pull 4500 cfm of air. I believe it is a 27 1/2 inch wide dual fan setup. I'll have to go measure the stock radiator and see if it will even fit. I think the 220's are around 26 1/2 or so, and judjing by TonyJ's pictures the 220's fit pretty tight, so who knows. I'll probably get out there tomorrow and measure.

Bill

TonyJ

They work fine on mine. Wider won't work.

Highlander

Wont fit between the rails??

I dont understand why they dont work if the stock ones flow less air i believe.

TonyJ

Mine touches the hose fitting on both sides and is exactly between the fan mount ears (on the radiator). You could possibly mount it higher and cut off the ears, buy you couldn't get a wider one to sit flush on the core.

Live for TAs

I'm looking over my setup, and with the FMIC, it doesn't look like much air will get to the radiator. I'm running a 20x8x3 core IC, a B&M Supercooler oil cooler, the stock condenser, a Be Cool radiator and the stock water pump. I'd like to hear from those running a FMIC and AC to see what your coolant temps are in hot weather.

I rewired my supercharged Bonneville (3.8 V6) by adding a Perma-Cool 2950 cfm rated 16" fan in place of the stock fan and adding 2 x 12" pushers up front. This helped (idle temp 200-210 degrees with a 180 thermostat and low temp cut in for the fans) until the Perma Kool fan gave out. I'm back to a stock fan with the pushers, and this car regularly sees 220 degrees with the AC on. The main problem with this car is the skinny (5/8") radiator. I haven't been able to find a thicker radiator for it.

It gets real hot here, so I'm concerned about cooling issues. When I added a 383 to a 1984 RX7, it would never run cool while idling regardless of pusher/puller fans, and this was w/o a condenser in the way.

What I really learned with the RX7 was that airflow in and out is key. The engine bay was so tight in that car that the air had no place to go once it went through the radiator. I've read that V8 powered Datsun Z cars have the same problem, which has resulted in some innovative plumbing to increase the radiator size or to get air out of the engine bay:

Adding heater cores as additional radiators

Georgia Z Club cooling tech article

I also found a link regarding putting an LT1 into a Vega/Monza chassis:

Vega radiator & fan conversion

Two schools of thought there- the author runs dual Spal 11" wired as pushers and the other guy mentioned used a single 16" puller.

It looks to me like I'm facing a similar problem as with the RX7 with the TA. It is a "bottom breather" in that all cooling air comes in from below the bumper. The FMIC is going to block at least 75% of this opening.

One option that looks to be a possibility is to remove the fog lamps and drill some 5" holes in the bumper reinforcement and duct air to the FMIC & radiator from there.

I just measured my stock fans and the Be Cool radiator. Here are some dimensions:
Depth: (with shroud) 6"
Width (shroud- top) 23"
Width (shroud- bottom) 25.5"
Max width (where the curved part of the fan sticks out on the sides) 26.5"

Be Cool radiator core opening: 17.5" high x 22.5" wide

The Flex a Lite 220 is shown as 15.5" high x 26.25" wide x 2&5/8" deep.
The fan diameter is 12". It is rated at 2500 cfm (fixed speed).

It is $206 at Summit.

The Flex a Lite 295 is shown as 17.5" high x 27.5 wide x 4" deep.
The fan diameter is 13.5". It is rated at 2760-4500 cfm (variable speed).

It is $370 at Summit.

Using a scale drawing, I used the Be Cool core dimension & found that two 12" (outside diameter) fans would barely fit if one was at the upper right and the other at the lower left. Using two 13.5" diameter fans, they would hang outside of the core by about 1.5" each side.

The issue here is if the 295 fans can be made to fit the Be Cool radiator. Taking into consideration the things that stick out from the Be Cool (pipes, mounting tabs, etc.), it does not look like it would be an easy job. The mounting tab to tab measurement on the Be Cool is about 26.25", which is over an inch narrower than the 295 requires.

One other possibility would be to use the stock shroud with a couple of thinner high flow fans. Flex a Lite shows a range of about 900-1250 cfm for their 12" fans, so it would be better to use the 220. Perma-Cool has two 12" fans listed at Summit, one (19008, $90) is rated at 1650 cfm, and the other (19122, $76) is rated at 3000 cfm (I found this hard to believe, and checking Perma-Cool's website they rate the fan at 1200 cfm at 3000 rpm, so this is a Summit error). These would result in 3300/2400 cfm if paired. The Perma-Cool high performance electric fan online catalog shows the 19008 as being 12.5" in diameter and 3.75" deep. It uses four mounting lugs like the stock fans, so this may be a good possibility for fit & performance.

96Z28SS

I installed a BeCool radiator and the dual Spal 11 inch fans with a HD Meziere electric water pump in a 1994 T/A and it all fit in there nicely. I don't know the CFM rating but when the Spal Fans kick on it sounds like a Hurricane compared to the stock fans. The car runs much cooler also.

TonyJ

You probably know this, but...

You can drop summertime temps by running straight water (no anti-freeze) with a couple of bottles of redline water wetter.

From everything I've read, the shroud on fan setups makes a real difference in cooling. The air will flow to the easiest opening, so it also needs to be well sealed to the core. If money is no object, I believe BeCool makes complete setups in various sizes that include radiator, fan, shroud, wiring, etc. If they have the magical size you need for the RX7, it would probably be as good a base as you could get.

I agree with the airflow statement and think you have to open up some ducts to the engine compartment (in and out). I noticed a difference when I put on the SS hood. The opening forces air into the engine bay and help cool. It's possible you could use the f-body idea of mounting an air foil under the front end to push air up into the radiator.

Live for TAs

Thanks for the info. I used water wetter on the Mazda to no avail- I ended up selling the car. The shroud is a key factor, which is why using the stock piece with better fans appeals to me. My TA has the ram air hood, which will allow air in from the top.

You have a great car (love the color) and an excellent website.

Live for TAs

Also thanks for the info. Based on your sig, there is no IC on your car? I'm interested in finding out how big a hit I'm going to take cooling wise with the FMIC. I've read a few other threads here where guys have opened up the front plate & fog lamp area of their TAs for more airflow, and it looks like I may go this route.

TonyJ

Thanks! The website needs updating, as usual... A friend was joking that I've got a 9sec website for an 11 sec car. lol