Dilemna
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 195
From: Salmon Arm
Dilemna
Know here is the dilemna I have two wants and they seem to conflict with eachother here they are.
1) I would like to have a distinctive cam idle with a positive roar when I go down the street high compression and all that, ok pretty classic muscle car build up.agreed.
2) But I also want power and lots of it and one of the only real ways I can do that is FI but then, I can not have high compression without having detonation right?
So my dad wants me to build it up with cam heads intake etc I want to also but then I can not have the power FI lets us so nicely have right? due to the need to keep compression lower I beleive i will lack that distinctive roar.
Now is there any way I can get the best of both worlds.My father sort of knows I want the power but I have not discussed it at length with him and he already has a good freind of his looking for a set of heads for the car and I would really really hate to dissapoint him.I beleive he thinks that FI is sort of cheap way to get power.
Now how unreliable is it really I have a 87 target truck engine that has been turned back to carburator and my car is going to be a daily driver so it has to be reliable.So can it be reliable with a turbo in the mid 11's kind of deal maybe even low 12's.
any insight would be greatly appreciated
<sory about multi posting 12sec thread>
Shadow
Leroy
1) I would like to have a distinctive cam idle with a positive roar when I go down the street high compression and all that, ok pretty classic muscle car build up.agreed.
2) But I also want power and lots of it and one of the only real ways I can do that is FI but then, I can not have high compression without having detonation right?
So my dad wants me to build it up with cam heads intake etc I want to also but then I can not have the power FI lets us so nicely have right? due to the need to keep compression lower I beleive i will lack that distinctive roar.
Now is there any way I can get the best of both worlds.My father sort of knows I want the power but I have not discussed it at length with him and he already has a good freind of his looking for a set of heads for the car and I would really really hate to dissapoint him.I beleive he thinks that FI is sort of cheap way to get power.
Now how unreliable is it really I have a 87 target truck engine that has been turned back to carburator and my car is going to be a daily driver so it has to be reliable.So can it be reliable with a turbo in the mid 11's kind of deal maybe even low 12's.
any insight would be greatly appreciated
<sory about multi posting 12sec thread>
Shadow
Leroy
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,450
From: Belleville, IL
Turbocharging a carb'd motor can be a little trickier than EFI. Really it depends on whether it's a blow through or draw through design.
If it were my choice, I'd look at a D1 Procharger. You can make all kinds of power and the sound of the charger will be more than enough to intimidate most of the locals.
If it were my choice, I'd look at a D1 Procharger. You can make all kinds of power and the sound of the charger will be more than enough to intimidate most of the locals.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,743
From: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
If you have a carb, I'd totally stay away from centrifugal superchargers or turbochargers. It can be done, but only experienced professionals seem to get it near right the first time. It would basically be a home-fabricated installation which means many, many headaches. It's hard enough to install a purpose-built kit on a car, but having to fab up a kit? . . . That's a whole different story.
Compression doesn't make much difference in the sound of an engine unless you get past 13/1, which is not pump-gas territory naturally aspirated or otherwise.
Cam choice does make an engine sound different, but the cams that work well with supercharging idle fairly smooth.
My advice? Build a 9/1 compression 383 with good heads (like AFR 210's or Canfield's), a hydraulic roller cam in the 230i, 240e - 112 LSA range, Edelbrock RPM intake, Holley 750, Hooker Super Comp headers. That would make around 470 hp and have a lumpy idle plus you'll learn alot in the process of building. You'll also get a feel for if you want to tackle a FI set-up.
If you're not happy with that, the compression is low enough and the cam close enough such that you can add a B&M 177 or 144 roots type blower. That type blower is much easier to install and set up on a carb engine than centrifugal.
One piece of advice, though, is that everyone who deals with FI will blow up at least one engine. I've blown up 3 over the years and I'm pretty careful. It's somewhat of a rite of passage and part of the learning curve, so be prepared.
Mike
Compression doesn't make much difference in the sound of an engine unless you get past 13/1, which is not pump-gas territory naturally aspirated or otherwise.
Cam choice does make an engine sound different, but the cams that work well with supercharging idle fairly smooth.
My advice? Build a 9/1 compression 383 with good heads (like AFR 210's or Canfield's), a hydraulic roller cam in the 230i, 240e - 112 LSA range, Edelbrock RPM intake, Holley 750, Hooker Super Comp headers. That would make around 470 hp and have a lumpy idle plus you'll learn alot in the process of building. You'll also get a feel for if you want to tackle a FI set-up.
If you're not happy with that, the compression is low enough and the cam close enough such that you can add a B&M 177 or 144 roots type blower. That type blower is much easier to install and set up on a carb engine than centrifugal.
One piece of advice, though, is that everyone who deals with FI will blow up at least one engine. I've blown up 3 over the years and I'm pretty careful. It's somewhat of a rite of passage and part of the learning curve, so be prepared.
Mike
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,784
From: Jacksonville
Yeah, the learning curve on FI is pretty steep (cause rebuilding motors gets expensive). I learned alot when I supercharged my LT1 Trans AM (thankfully, it's still alive although I had alot of experienced people helping me out). I'm now at the point where I'm building a Twin Turbo race car to play with and I'm sure it will break more than it's fair share of parts in the process. Honestly, if you're building a daily driver and using a carb, I wouldn't even attempt doing a turbo charger becuase they are not an easy setup. If you want FI, stick to a small roots style blower like Mike said in the previous post. The 144 will fit under a few stock hoods and just about all cowl induction hoods and you can make well over 500 HP with them on pump gas. Much more and you're just asking for trouble on the street. Don't forget to use a good quality forged piston in the motor if you are going to do FI.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,743
From: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
Just as an FYI, I'll describe two combo's I previously owned:
NA:
11.5/1 383 with AFR 210 heads, 234/242 - 112 hydraulic roller cam, Victor Jr. intake, Holley 750, SLP shorty headers.
Best time: 11.09 @ 122.7 mph
FI:
9/1 355 with TFS twisted wedge heads, 208/221 - 112 hydraulic roller cam, B&M 144 - 5 psi boost, Holley 750, Edelbrock headers.
Best time: 12.10 @ 114 mph
In retrospect, a properly built NA carb'd engine can produce gobs of power and torque - even more than many supercharged combo's.
Keep it simple. Stay NA. The only reason I'm FI now is because I've reached a point in my life where I have the resources to pursue a very fast AND streetable car. Multipoint injection is by far the best way to go when using turbo or centrifugal superchargers, but it's very expensive.
Mike
NA:
11.5/1 383 with AFR 210 heads, 234/242 - 112 hydraulic roller cam, Victor Jr. intake, Holley 750, SLP shorty headers.
Best time: 11.09 @ 122.7 mph
FI:
9/1 355 with TFS twisted wedge heads, 208/221 - 112 hydraulic roller cam, B&M 144 - 5 psi boost, Holley 750, Edelbrock headers.
Best time: 12.10 @ 114 mph
In retrospect, a properly built NA carb'd engine can produce gobs of power and torque - even more than many supercharged combo's.
Keep it simple. Stay NA. The only reason I'm FI now is because I've reached a point in my life where I have the resources to pursue a very fast AND streetable car. Multipoint injection is by far the best way to go when using turbo or centrifugal superchargers, but it's very expensive.
Mike
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