I have been looking at several options about going fast. I have thought about going with a BIG cube Dart Little M N/A nitrous motor with some exotice heads ect. Then I see this news about a new turbo setup and I realize I have always put forced induction to the back burner. I see people like George B. Running some 9's. Question is... How would you build the motor. I know low compression but I guess the question is how low? Heads... What would you be looking for intake runner wise(size) ? Do Low lift intake numbers mean as much on a FI motor as they do on N/A? What do you look for when picking a FI cam when going all out? How about Displacment (350,383,427)? Any help would be great!

 

Dart block, 8.5:1 CR, Dart 18* heads, 91mm turbo, Liquid to Air Intercooler, custom headers and custom sheetmetal intake with maybe a 90mm Ford TB, some sort of good engine management system like a FAST or an Accel DFI Gen 7, custom solid roller cam grind for a turbo motor (Harry @ PTE could help you with this or Kenny Duttweiler of Duttweiler Performance).... As far as displacement a 406ci motor would be my choice and I would use a 2-speed PG or TH-400 w/ a trans brake.... If you are really serious call and speak with somebody like Duttweiler or Harry at PTE www.precisionte.com

HTH

 

I have been looking at the Turbo Kit a few post down.. I just am trying to see what I can get the most HP out of.. The Turbo.. Or a YS trim..? Thank guys

 

Well if the biggest turbo offered with the kit is a 76mm turbo the YS trim supercharger would be capable of more power because the 76 turbo is good for around 900hp and the YS-trim is good for around 1000hp max according to Vortech's website.... Keep in mind a turbo motor is much more reliable than a blown motor and with an 88mm turbo you could make around 1050-1200hp.... If you plan on using a different block like a Dart the turbo kit won't work because I'm pretty sure those kits are only for LT1/LS1 based motors.... If you are going to use something like a Dart block or any type of 1st gen style small block I would go with the turbo route, but if you plan on staying with your LT1 the YS-trim would make more power....

 

Hmmm, from the looks of the PTK turbo kit for the LT1 they are saying the 76mm turbo is good for 900 to 1000hp.... I'd go with the turbo and not have to worry about belts breaking and your crank getting abused but that's just me

 

You haven't given enough information to formulate an intelligent reply. What is your budget and what kind of racing? Without knowing that. it's too open ended.

Rich Krause

 

If it is a race only... Are you racing in a series?

IF so what are the rules?

I decided on this... For my race motor i choose 9.0-1 was going to run higher but just decided to add more boost.

Get a mid weight rotating assembly. I personally like callies and crower.
I choose to use a big bore setup (4.155) and keep the stroke down for rules. I am only at 347 ci.

Turbo if you choose that route should be picked for the application. Are you going to want 1000 hp, 1500 hp, ??? I would talk to Innovative Turbo, Or Limit Engineering on their turbos though.

For camshaft choices for a turbo motor i would talk to two shops. Duttweiller or Turbo People.

I choose brodix heads that flow very well with huge ports. Why cause the least amount of restriction i have the more hp I will make. I had mine ported by weld tech (using 2.20, 1.60 valves titanium intake, inconel exhaust)

If you are looking for a blower setup for a sbc I know where a complete d3 setup is with bracket for a sbc and the cogged belt setup etc.. Everything is brand new minus blower which was serviced i believe.

Just bring in what your restrictions are.. Class rules, personal wants (hp, tq)
Steven

 

Ok.. Budget for the short block right now is 10K. Well.. I have a very limited choice of classes I can run. But it will most likly have to be a street class. I can't run a Pro class that goes heads up. To many quick cars arround here! But There is no limit on engine size. Just that you cant have open exhaust and has to be stock style sspension. No Frame alterations for wider tires ect. But power adders ect there is nothing restricting me in my local classes!

 

So this is heads up racing? What's your budget for the whole engine and for the whole project? What transmission are you planning to use? Can you use dual power adders (N2O + blower)? What about an all nitrous setup? Do you need/want to stick with an LT1? Must you use the stock PCM or can you use an aftermarket ECU?

What you posted helps, but it's still very open ended. I love to bench race, but there is still so many possibilities that a good response would be an encyclopedia.

Rich Krause

 

I have about 25K for shortblock heads and valve train. I have a TCI TH400 with transbrake and a 3800 stall. I have on order a 9" rear. I have Spoke to PA Racing and they will make a K-member for a GEN 1 style mount for $70 dollers over regular cost. I am going to get the Accel Gen 7+ wide band. I am not set on the LT1 but I do want to stay Fuel Injected. Also I have thought about an all nitrous motor but I just wonder if I will have the same power...?

Thanks for the help so far Rich!

 

I am getting a better idea of what you are trying to do. It still isn't clear that the car will be used for heads-up racing, but it seems so from the context. So your question becomes: what motor should I build for heads-up drag racing in a F-body with a budget of $25,000? No rules as far as displacement, induction, origin of bloack, etc. Have I got it?

$25K is a lot of money, but you are still going to need to budget carefully to get as much bang for your buck as possible, which is important if you want to win! To start, you have to keep in mind that the bottom end is just there to support the top end. Besides the strength necessary to support the load you will place on it, you want it as big as possible, since cubic inches are often the cheapest way to hp. On that basis, I'd go with an aftermaket Gen I block. This gives you big cubes, lots of choce in heads, intake, etc. Most of the stuff is designed for carb use, but there's plenty of people out there who can convert carb intakes to FI and there are also intake setup specifically configured for FI. I'd use a Motown or Bowtie iron block with a 4.00" stroke, 4.125" bore for 427ci displacement.

There are so many head choices out there, it's hard to know where to start. This rings up the 18 vs. 23 degree head issue. I think that within your budget, given that you are going to have a blown or nitrous motor, it's better to stick with a 23 degree head. If this were NA, it would be a different story.

For induction, I'd think about nitrous rather than blower or turbo. It's going to be a cheaper way to high HP and torque than a blower or turbo. You will be going with an aftermarket ECU anyway. Just research the choice of ECU carefully to get the unit with the most flexible nitrous controls. Look at the Electromotive TEC3 in that regard. Depends how fast you need to be to win against whoever your competition is. A 500+hp nitrous system isn't all that expensive. Added to a good 427SB, 1,200hp should be pretty easy. If that's not enough, you could do a blower plus nitrous system, but that may be too expensive for your budget.

If you want a blower I think turbos are great, but I wouldn't consider one for your application. A big disadvantage of a centrifugal is the lack of low end hp, which is irrelevant for track use. The other, which is the hp it takes to drive the compressor, is still there. But a high po turbo setup will be a lot more expensive to buy and package than a big centrifugal and the hp with either will be limited to how mcuh boost the bottom end can take. So both will be effectively limited to the same hp, even though a turbo has more potential.

Those are some general thoughts on the subject. In you original post, you asked about compression for a blower motor. I have to go now, but will post more rambligs later.

Rich Krause

 

rich, in one of his posts, he said

im assuming that means he isnt going to run heads up.

 

Ooops, I guess I didn't read as carefully as I should have.

Changes everything. Why spend $25K to bracket race? I suppose you could set the car up to run a 9.90 dial in. I have actually considered this with my street/strip car and might do it next year. Partly 'cause it'd be fun to be such a "duck out of water" and run in a class where everything else was a race car but drive it to the track and bolt on the slicks, drive home with the AC on!

If I were building a 4th gen just for the track to specifically run 9.90 I might just do it NA with an LS1 architecture and serious weight reduction.

So, how fast doy you want to run?

Rich Krause

 

This car will see NO street use! Iam down for head up racing! lol But I dont know how I can compete with guys running arround here. We only have 3 Classes of Racing here In the Virginia area. Super Pro which is Head up bring what you got. All it has to have is doors that open! Then you have 3 street classes A,B, and C. And then there is ET points wich is bracket just like street trophy(A,B,C) So.. These guys that are running 6's,7's 8's ect I know I cant hang! So whats a guy to do. LOL At national events The classes get a little broader. I like an N/A engine. Wish I could see the light. My 25K budget is slowly going down little by little. I but something here or there for another project. I just want to start buying parts and Start turning wrenches!

 

Dude, send me your 25 large, and I'll hook you up with power for low 8's. NOT A PROBLEM. think big turbo, it's a no brainer. (suspension is your deal )

I'm looking to run bottom 9's on a $2500 shortblock and a pair of stock LT1 castings.. We've already been 6.20's on this setup in the 1/8th with a less than optimal setup in a 3650lb car.

For 25 grand I could fly

good luck!