? for 650-750rwhp owners
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 55
? for 650-750rwhp owners
1.How is the drivability on the street at that range?
2.Are you happy with that hp level your making?
3.Do you want more?
4.How does it feel when you hit that pedal (street or strip)
or 
The reason I'm asking all this questions is that I'm looking for a hp range to shoot for as my goal. I'm planning on a engine build (FI 383). And I just want to do this right. A hp level that I'm going to be happy with. And that I won't ever want to spend more money upgrading and getting rid of more parts already spent in the pass. And at the same time I also don't want a car that's going to be very uncontrollable on the street. Because there's way to much hp. But I also want to stay ahead of the game too. I mean look at all the new cars coming out. 400-500 fwhp is becoming common on a stock car these days. Z06,mustangs,GTO's to name a few? You know what I mean!
Anyways my car will be a 70% street and 30% strip. My goal on the strip is to accomplish mid to high 10's. Thanks people
2.Are you happy with that hp level your making?
3.Do you want more?
4.How does it feel when you hit that pedal (street or strip)
or The reason I'm asking all this questions is that I'm looking for a hp range to shoot for as my goal. I'm planning on a engine build (FI 383). And I just want to do this right. A hp level that I'm going to be happy with. And that I won't ever want to spend more money upgrading and getting rid of more parts already spent in the pass. And at the same time I also don't want a car that's going to be very uncontrollable on the street. Because there's way to much hp. But I also want to stay ahead of the game too. I mean look at all the new cars coming out. 400-500 fwhp is becoming common on a stock car these days. Z06,mustangs,GTO's to name a few? You know what I mean!
Anyways my car will be a 70% street and 30% strip. My goal on the strip is to accomplish mid to high 10's. Thanks people
Last edited by ReD0917; Feb 18, 2005 at 03:15 AM.
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 10,745
From: Buffalo, New York
Re: ? for 650-750rwhp owners
There is no reason for a forced induction small block in that hp range not to drive perfectly fine, if enough time and $$$ are expended getting it right. However, you will need to adjust your driving style, the throttle is no longer going to be a "on-off switch". Even with a good set of tires you will not be using WOT in the lower gears on the street. A certain amount of "fun" is lost as it takes a lot more thought and restraint to drive the car safely and you may find it a little frustrating in that respect.
The thing that surprises the uninitiated is the cost. When all of the ancillary stuff besides the motor is considered, you should plan on spending 1.5-2.5X or even more than you originally guesstimated, depending on where you are starting and how much you can do yourself. And no matter how you build it, there will be a certain "finicky" factor. Even though the major parts should be reasonably reliable (if they are selected and installed properly), you shouldn't plan on a car like this being something that will operate without a fair amount of TLC. Even if you drive it gently, it is not going to be as reliable and maintainence free as a stocker. After all, you are creating a fairly complex system without the advantages in terms of testing and expertise that an OEM has. And if you look at production cars with anywhere near the performance you are contemplating, you may note that they are three, four, or more times as expensive as what a project like this costs. Now admittedly, a lot of that cost is profit or related to irrelevant content like interior materials, meeting emissions and other legal standards, etc. But a lot of it has to with the testing and verification process and the content. The OEM's spend a lot of time on reliability testing.
Just curious, but have you made a realistic budget? If so, why not post it - I'd love to shoot holes in it in a helpful and constructive tone, of course. Having seen a lot of such plans, I can tell you in advance they typically leave out a few major things, as well as some "minor" items. And the minor items add up real fast. A few hundred here, five hundred there, and soon you are talking thousands. And the price of each item is often understimated and/or the fact that someone has to install and test all of that stuff is forgotten in the enthusiasm of the moment. I've been at this a while and I bought a ready to go race car last fall. I literally bought it the day after it ran sucessfully at the track, but before it's ready to go in the spring I will have an additional $5-6,000 in it, and that's with doing a fair amount myself and having friends do some of the work by "bartering" some of my own skills on their projects. And most of that cost is stuff I really didn't anticipate in the excitement of the moment. "Little" things ranging from $1,000 worth of tires to a $150 chassis inspection, $400 in protective gear, and so on and on it goes. And I have been at this stuff "a while" - as in ~40 years!!!
Rich
The thing that surprises the uninitiated is the cost. When all of the ancillary stuff besides the motor is considered, you should plan on spending 1.5-2.5X or even more than you originally guesstimated, depending on where you are starting and how much you can do yourself. And no matter how you build it, there will be a certain "finicky" factor. Even though the major parts should be reasonably reliable (if they are selected and installed properly), you shouldn't plan on a car like this being something that will operate without a fair amount of TLC. Even if you drive it gently, it is not going to be as reliable and maintainence free as a stocker. After all, you are creating a fairly complex system without the advantages in terms of testing and expertise that an OEM has. And if you look at production cars with anywhere near the performance you are contemplating, you may note that they are three, four, or more times as expensive as what a project like this costs. Now admittedly, a lot of that cost is profit or related to irrelevant content like interior materials, meeting emissions and other legal standards, etc. But a lot of it has to with the testing and verification process and the content. The OEM's spend a lot of time on reliability testing.
Just curious, but have you made a realistic budget? If so, why not post it - I'd love to shoot holes in it in a helpful and constructive tone, of course. Having seen a lot of such plans, I can tell you in advance they typically leave out a few major things, as well as some "minor" items. And the minor items add up real fast. A few hundred here, five hundred there, and soon you are talking thousands. And the price of each item is often understimated and/or the fact that someone has to install and test all of that stuff is forgotten in the enthusiasm of the moment. I've been at this a while and I bought a ready to go race car last fall. I literally bought it the day after it ran sucessfully at the track, but before it's ready to go in the spring I will have an additional $5-6,000 in it, and that's with doing a fair amount myself and having friends do some of the work by "bartering" some of my own skills on their projects. And most of that cost is stuff I really didn't anticipate in the excitement of the moment. "Little" things ranging from $1,000 worth of tires to a $150 chassis inspection, $400 in protective gear, and so on and on it goes. And I have been at this stuff "a while" - as in ~40 years!!!
Rich
Last edited by rskrause; Feb 18, 2005 at 05:52 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 834
From: Fernandina Beach FL
Re: ? for 650-750rwhp owners
Hey,
I can emphasis the "do it right" enough. I have had 3 other prodject i took shortcuts on and all of them never went over 1000 miles or worked very well.
I finally "did it right" with my current setup and couldn't be happier. Although yes it was $$$...
As for you questions
1. Near stock. I have mild cam, the car sound alil meaner at idle, but is actully smooth as stock. my previous cams shook the car, wouldn't idle, surged alot. with the blower, it doesn't help to have extreme cams, and so im very please with that. Drawbacks include the initial cost, and work(turbo or blower) and very very high maintinance, tuning, and i guess the fact you cant mash on the gas anywhere including the freeway like stock car and expect the tires to stick
2.and 3. im kinda on the low side of your quiery, limited to 7 psi(41,000 blower rpm) due to maxed out 42# injectors. I will be pulling it up to the blowers redline on 62,000 rpm when i get some 75# ers. I expect 12-16psi lots more power and absolutly no change in driveabilty. but it reality, mid to uper 500 feel great for now.
4. like a rocket.
ditto Rkrause
I can emphasis the "do it right" enough. I have had 3 other prodject i took shortcuts on and all of them never went over 1000 miles or worked very well.
I finally "did it right" with my current setup and couldn't be happier. Although yes it was $$$...
As for you questions
1. Near stock. I have mild cam, the car sound alil meaner at idle, but is actully smooth as stock. my previous cams shook the car, wouldn't idle, surged alot. with the blower, it doesn't help to have extreme cams, and so im very please with that. Drawbacks include the initial cost, and work(turbo or blower) and very very high maintinance, tuning, and i guess the fact you cant mash on the gas anywhere including the freeway like stock car and expect the tires to stick
2.and 3. im kinda on the low side of your quiery, limited to 7 psi(41,000 blower rpm) due to maxed out 42# injectors. I will be pulling it up to the blowers redline on 62,000 rpm when i get some 75# ers. I expect 12-16psi lots more power and absolutly no change in driveabilty. but it reality, mid to uper 500 feel great for now.
4. like a rocket.
ditto Rkrause
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 10,745
From: Buffalo, New York
Re: ? for 650-750rwhp owners
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
Last year on the few passes I made I had some belt slippage, but in spite of that the acceleration is a blast on the track.
Case in point, these things are NOT "plug-n-play"!
Rich
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 311
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: ? for 650-750rwhp owners
Originally Posted by rskrause
There is no reason for a forced induction small block in that hp range not to drive perfectly fine, if enough time and $$$ are expended getting it right. However, you will need to adjust your driving style, the throttle is no longer going to be a "on-off switch". Even with a good set of tires you will not be using WOT in the lower gears on the street. A certain amount of "fun" is lost as it takes a lot more thought and restraint to drive the car safely and you may find it a little frustrating in that respect.
The thing that surprises the uninitiated is the cost. When all of the ancillary stuff besides the motor is considered, you should plan on spending 1.5-2.5X or even more than you originally guesstimated, depending on where you are starting and how much you can do yourself. And no matter how you build it, there will be a certain "finicky" factor. Even though the major parts should be reasonably reliable (if they are selected and installed properly), you shouldn't plan on a car like this being something that will operate without a fair amount of TLC. Even if you drive it gently, it is not going to be as reliable and maintainence free as a stocker. After all, you are creating a fairly complex system without the advantages in terms of testing and expertise that an OEM has. And if you look at production cars with anywhere near the performance you are contemplating, you may note that they are three, four, or more times as expensive as what a project like this costs. Now admittedly, a lot of that cost is profit or related to irrelevant content like interior materials, meeting emissions and other legal standards, etc. But a lot of it has to with the testing and verification process and the content. The OEM's spend a lot of time on reliability testing.
Just curious, but have you made a realistic budget? If so, why not post it - I'd love to shoot holes in it in a helpful and constructive tone, of course. Having seen a lot of such plans, I can tell you in advance they typically leave out a few major things, as well as some "minor" items. And the minor items add up real fast. A few hundred here, five hundred there, and soon you are talking thousands. And the price of each item is often understimated and/or the fact that someone has to install and test all of that stuff is forgotten in the enthusiasm of the moment. I've been at this a while and I bought a ready to go race car last fall. I literally bought it the day after it ran sucessfully at the track, but before it's ready to go in the spring I will have an additional $5-6,000 in it, and that's with doing a fair amount myself and having friends do some of the work by "bartering" some of my own skills on their projects. And most of that cost is stuff I really didn't anticipate in the excitement of the moment. "Little" things ranging from $1,000 worth of tires to a $150 chassis inspection, $400 in protective gear, and so on and on it goes. And I have been at this stuff "a while" - as in ~40 years!!!
Rich
The thing that surprises the uninitiated is the cost. When all of the ancillary stuff besides the motor is considered, you should plan on spending 1.5-2.5X or even more than you originally guesstimated, depending on where you are starting and how much you can do yourself. And no matter how you build it, there will be a certain "finicky" factor. Even though the major parts should be reasonably reliable (if they are selected and installed properly), you shouldn't plan on a car like this being something that will operate without a fair amount of TLC. Even if you drive it gently, it is not going to be as reliable and maintainence free as a stocker. After all, you are creating a fairly complex system without the advantages in terms of testing and expertise that an OEM has. And if you look at production cars with anywhere near the performance you are contemplating, you may note that they are three, four, or more times as expensive as what a project like this costs. Now admittedly, a lot of that cost is profit or related to irrelevant content like interior materials, meeting emissions and other legal standards, etc. But a lot of it has to with the testing and verification process and the content. The OEM's spend a lot of time on reliability testing.
Just curious, but have you made a realistic budget? If so, why not post it - I'd love to shoot holes in it in a helpful and constructive tone, of course. Having seen a lot of such plans, I can tell you in advance they typically leave out a few major things, as well as some "minor" items. And the minor items add up real fast. A few hundred here, five hundred there, and soon you are talking thousands. And the price of each item is often understimated and/or the fact that someone has to install and test all of that stuff is forgotten in the enthusiasm of the moment. I've been at this a while and I bought a ready to go race car last fall. I literally bought it the day after it ran sucessfully at the track, but before it's ready to go in the spring I will have an additional $5-6,000 in it, and that's with doing a fair amount myself and having friends do some of the work by "bartering" some of my own skills on their projects. And most of that cost is stuff I really didn't anticipate in the excitement of the moment. "Little" things ranging from $1,000 worth of tires to a $150 chassis inspection, $400 in protective gear, and so on and on it goes. And I have been at this stuff "a while" - as in ~40 years!!!
Rich
1. "There is no reason for a forced induction small block in that hp range not to drive perfectly fine, if enough time and $$$ are expended getting it right. However, you will need to adjust your driving style, the throttle is no longer going to be a "on-off switch". Even with a good set of tires you will not be using WOT in the lower gears on the street. A certain amount of "fun" is lost as it takes a lot more thought and restraint to drive the car safely and you may find it a little frustrating in that respect. "
In terms of drivibility on the street, what I found that may also effect this depending on the selection is the clutch and the sound of the exhaust.
2. I'm happy at that power level.
3. I don't want more (but closer to 700rwhp will be nice
). I'm actually at 611rwhp so not quite in the range you are asking. But from my experience at this range you will have more than you can use effectively on the street. If this is a street monster you should have more than you can use or control. If this car will be on the track much, then the motor is just half of the story in terms of time, labor, and money!4. Remember at this power level, you can't floor it until third at 1500rpm if that. It will be
At the stop light you will probably be spinning your tires and just sitting there. At the freeway and the track it will be awesome.
Cheers
Last edited by Camaro_SS/R; Feb 18, 2005 at 07:13 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 218
From: Broken Arrow, OK, 74011
Re: ? for 650-750rwhp owners
These guys have alot of wisdom in their words and experience. It can be done and it is often fun, but these cars can be very tricky on the road. My wifes blown 383 z has 500rwhp, AC and auto and it is more fun to drive then my 700+hp turbo TA. The TA is easy to drive, but you have to be very careful as things can get out of control in a hurry. And when the car breaks on the side of the road - don't leave it! You will spend money if you want it done right. So save yourself the time and money and buy mine for 26,000.00 USD - half what was put into it. With this I will buy my vette back and just enjoy driving.
Wingnut
Wingnut
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 93
From: SE PA
Re: ? for 650-750rwhp owners
My 355, turbo 400, 9" rear drives real nice (i'm in the 650-700 RWHP). But no matter when I floor it it fry's the tires even in third at 60. Fun yes, dependable yes........ so far, but not a real daily driver. Realisticly, WAY to much power for a street car. You can't keep your foot out of it so your just looking for trouble, and I'm 47.
Do i want more, Sure i'm making a new intake, bigger headers and adding a A/W intercooler to get those intake temps down when the boost goes up. I'm looking for 750-800 this year.
I run have run 10:16, 135 with a slow 1.58 60' at 3600lbs. if you hook up better than mine did you can go mid tens at 500 RWHP.
Oh like someone said, If you have a budget I would like to see it also, cause we are going to hammer it!
Do i want more, Sure i'm making a new intake, bigger headers and adding a A/W intercooler to get those intake temps down when the boost goes up. I'm looking for 750-800 this year.
I run have run 10:16, 135 with a slow 1.58 60' at 3600lbs. if you hook up better than mine did you can go mid tens at 500 RWHP.
Oh like someone said, If you have a budget I would like to see it also, cause we are going to hammer it!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 55
Re: ? for 650-750rwhp owners
Originally Posted by rskrause
There is no reason for a forced induction small block in that hp range not to drive perfectly fine, if enough time and $$$ are expended getting it right. However, you will need to adjust your driving style, the throttle is no longer going to be a "on-off switch". Even with a good set of tires you will not be using WOT in the lower gears on the street. A certain amount of "fun" is lost as it takes a lot more thought and restraint to drive the car safely and you may find it a little frustrating in that respect.
The thing that surprises the uninitiated is the cost. When all of the ancillary stuff besides the motor is considered, you should plan on spending 1.5-2.5X or even more than you originally guesstimated, depending on where you are starting and how much you can do yourself. And no matter how you build it, there will be a certain "finicky" factor. Even though the major parts should be reasonably reliable (if they are selected and installed properly), you shouldn't plan on a car like this being something that will operate without a fair amount of TLC. Even if you drive it gently, it is not going to be as reliable and maintainence free as a stocker. After all, you are creating a fairly complex system without the advantages in terms of testing and expertise that an OEM has. And if you look at production cars with anywhere near the performance you are contemplating, you may note that they are three, four, or more times as expensive as what a project like this costs. Now admittedly, a lot of that cost is profit or related to irrelevant content like interior materials, meeting emissions and other legal standards, etc. But a lot of it has to with the testing and verification process and the content. The OEM's spend a lot of time on reliability testing.
Just curious, but have you made a realistic budget? If so, why not post it - I'd love to shoot holes in it in a helpful and constructive tone, of course. Having seen a lot of such plans, I can tell you in advance they typically leave out a few major things, as well as some "minor" items. And the minor items add up real fast. A few hundred here, five hundred there, and soon you are talking thousands. And the price of each item is often understimated and/or the fact that someone has to install and test all of that stuff is forgotten in the enthusiasm of the moment. I've been at this a while and I bought a ready to go race car last fall. I literally bought it the day after it ran sucessfully at the track, but before it's ready to go in the spring I will have an additional $5-6,000 in it, and that's with doing a fair amount myself and having friends do some of the work by "bartering" some of my own skills on their projects. And most of that cost is stuff I really didn't anticipate in the excitement of the moment. "Little" things ranging from $1,000 worth of tires to a $150 chassis inspection, $400 in protective gear, and so on and on it goes. And I have been at this stuff "a while" - as in ~40 years!!!
Rich
The thing that surprises the uninitiated is the cost. When all of the ancillary stuff besides the motor is considered, you should plan on spending 1.5-2.5X or even more than you originally guesstimated, depending on where you are starting and how much you can do yourself. And no matter how you build it, there will be a certain "finicky" factor. Even though the major parts should be reasonably reliable (if they are selected and installed properly), you shouldn't plan on a car like this being something that will operate without a fair amount of TLC. Even if you drive it gently, it is not going to be as reliable and maintainence free as a stocker. After all, you are creating a fairly complex system without the advantages in terms of testing and expertise that an OEM has. And if you look at production cars with anywhere near the performance you are contemplating, you may note that they are three, four, or more times as expensive as what a project like this costs. Now admittedly, a lot of that cost is profit or related to irrelevant content like interior materials, meeting emissions and other legal standards, etc. But a lot of it has to with the testing and verification process and the content. The OEM's spend a lot of time on reliability testing.
Just curious, but have you made a realistic budget? If so, why not post it - I'd love to shoot holes in it in a helpful and constructive tone, of course. Having seen a lot of such plans, I can tell you in advance they typically leave out a few major things, as well as some "minor" items. And the minor items add up real fast. A few hundred here, five hundred there, and soon you are talking thousands. And the price of each item is often understimated and/or the fact that someone has to install and test all of that stuff is forgotten in the enthusiasm of the moment. I've been at this a while and I bought a ready to go race car last fall. I literally bought it the day after it ran sucessfully at the track, but before it's ready to go in the spring I will have an additional $5-6,000 in it, and that's with doing a fair amount myself and having friends do some of the work by "bartering" some of my own skills on their projects. And most of that cost is stuff I really didn't anticipate in the excitement of the moment. "Little" things ranging from $1,000 worth of tires to a $150 chassis inspection, $400 in protective gear, and so on and on it goes. And I have been at this stuff "a while" - as in ~40 years!!!
Rich
Now for the $$$ part. So far I have $18,000 to spend. $3500 of it is for the shortblock. Now as far as the top end,fuel system,ECU, and supercharger. I'm still doing some research. Especially my heads and cam combo. Thats my next research and purchase. Does anyone know who I can turn to on this part?
Anyway thank you people!
Last edited by ReD0917; Feb 19, 2005 at 03:53 AM.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ? for 650-750rwhp owners
Does the $18,000 include the cost of the F-body itself? I didn't see anything in your sig or your post about already owning one. If the $18,000 is for just modification, you are in great shape. If not, you can still pick up a good condition LT1 car for a very reasonable price.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 55
Re: ? for 650-750rwhp owners
Originally Posted by n2oblkz
Does the $18,000 include the cost of the F-body itself? I didn't see anything in your sig or your post about already owning one. If the $18,000 is for just modification, you are in great shape. If not, you can still pick up a good condition LT1 car for a very reasonable price.
.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,125
From: Connecticut
Re: ? for 650-750rwhp owners
me on the other hand...im 21..going from a 13.4 @106..to hopefully low 10's...355 billet/forged and a turbo...so far my cost is around 23k..to get it done right..not including the little things...im shootin for 900whp in a car thats gonna be 90% street 10% track...good thing about boost..if it wasnt mentioned here..is(well easier for turbos) if its too much..you can always turn it down a notch or 2..or 3 or 4
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 218
From: Broken Arrow, OK, 74011
Re: ? for 650-750rwhp owners
Originally Posted by TransAm396
me on the other hand...im 21..going from a 13.4 @106..to hopefully low 10's...355 billet/forged and a turbo...so far my cost is around 23k..to get it done right..not including the little things...im shootin for 900whp in a car thats gonna be 90% street 10% track...good thing about boost..if it wasnt mentioned here..is(well easier for turbos) if its too much..you can always turn it down a notch or 2..or 3 or 4
Wingnut
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 36
From: Atlanta, Ga
Re: ? for 650-750rwhp owners
703/775 00T/A 3800# raceweight 3.23 rear
1: drives fine...anyone could drive it. Very dependable on the street...put 12000 miles on it in 4.5 months. Idle is very smooth and most folks think its basically stock with the stock catback (i have boost activated cutouts behind the turbos)
2:I am happy for once with that amount of hp. Turns the tires at 70 and I have found that my driving is a little calmer since most situations are just a tirespin show. Of course you can modulate the throttle and not spin but it's just not worth the effort after going full throttle at the track. i wait until I go to the track to have the most fun and just enjoy the car on the street. Also, funny as it seems....all the tire spin on the street lessens the drivetrain load and you dont break as much stuff on the street.
3: faster et yes...more power no..just need to apply all the power at the track
4: street it feels very powerful...roast the tires at will....when not hammering it, it feels stock. At the track...fun!!! I like the pull into the seat and it seems to never stop. With the slicks you get to really feel the power. Unbolt the slicks and then drive home......get to enjoy the priceless looks on folks faces when they see you drive off from the track in a car that sounded stock.
1: drives fine...anyone could drive it. Very dependable on the street...put 12000 miles on it in 4.5 months. Idle is very smooth and most folks think its basically stock with the stock catback (i have boost activated cutouts behind the turbos)
2:I am happy for once with that amount of hp. Turns the tires at 70 and I have found that my driving is a little calmer since most situations are just a tirespin show. Of course you can modulate the throttle and not spin but it's just not worth the effort after going full throttle at the track. i wait until I go to the track to have the most fun and just enjoy the car on the street. Also, funny as it seems....all the tire spin on the street lessens the drivetrain load and you dont break as much stuff on the street.
3: faster et yes...more power no..just need to apply all the power at the track
4: street it feels very powerful...roast the tires at will....when not hammering it, it feels stock. At the track...fun!!! I like the pull into the seat and it seems to never stop. With the slicks you get to really feel the power. Unbolt the slicks and then drive home......get to enjoy the priceless looks on folks faces when they see you drive off from the track in a car that sounded stock.