View Poll Results: 3750lbs, 450RWHP,500ft DA, 1.55 60ft what is the trap speed?
120-122mph
9
40.91%
123-125mph
11
50.00%
125-127mph
2
9.09%
128+mph
0
0%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll
450rwhp,3750lbs 500ft DA what should it trap?
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,193
From: San Diego, CA
For my answer for the question, I have seen a 450rwhp auto trap between 118 and 125 depending on setup.
But it depends so much on the specifics, that I can't even begin to point out how badly the answer belittles the issue. I have a friend who bracket races an 05 GTO that traps anywhere from 82-88.5 in the 8th depending on the variables. He is bone stock except for a tune and tires. He races and tunes cars for a living and has 10K+ lifetime passes and 3K on the gto alone. A range of 7mph in the 1/8th is HUGE and serves to point out that someone can over simplify the MPH topic.
But it depends so much on the specifics, that I can't even begin to point out how badly the answer belittles the issue. I have a friend who bracket races an 05 GTO that traps anywhere from 82-88.5 in the 8th depending on the variables. He is bone stock except for a tune and tires. He races and tunes cars for a living and has 10K+ lifetime passes and 3K on the gto alone. A range of 7mph in the 1/8th is HUGE and serves to point out that someone can over simplify the MPH topic.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,935
From: Mobile, Ala..USA
Doesnt matter if its locked or unlocked 450rwhp is 450rwhp locked or unlocked.
The car with 2 wounded pistons made 441 unlocked, 463 locked.
Yes the 450 unlocked is a guess...the car picked up 2 mph after it was fixed so the power it made after it was fixed was not that much more. 455 unlocked TOPS.
Power was made on Ed Wrights older Dynojet, no tricks were used. FULL exhaust, air filter in...just like it is driven on the street and raced.
Trans has no impact on weight vs rwhp=trap speed. It affects the elapsed time.
Yes the bigger(looser) would affect trap speed, it would put down LESS rwhp through the loose(r) converter.
ET would pick up(better 60 ft and 330) but mph would suffer.
The car with 2 wounded pistons made 441 unlocked, 463 locked.
Yes the 450 unlocked is a guess...the car picked up 2 mph after it was fixed so the power it made after it was fixed was not that much more. 455 unlocked TOPS.
Power was made on Ed Wrights older Dynojet, no tricks were used. FULL exhaust, air filter in...just like it is driven on the street and raced.
Trans has no impact on weight vs rwhp=trap speed. It affects the elapsed time.
Yes the bigger(looser) would affect trap speed, it would put down LESS rwhp through the loose(r) converter.
ET would pick up(better 60 ft and 330) but mph would suffer.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 954
From: Shelton, WA
If you're looking for some sort of reassurance that your car is going through the traps at a high enough speed for your measured HP, my answer lies in the AI thread that is now locked. Your trap speed is almost dead on what it should be. Out of curiousity, did you ever dyno that bad@$$ motor before you put it in the car?
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,193
From: San Diego, CA
Doesnt matter if its locked or unlocked 450rwhp is 450rwhp locked or unlocked.
The car with 2 wounded pistons made 441 unlocked, 463 locked.
Yes the 450 unlocked is a guess...the car picked up 2 mph after it was fixed so the power it made after it was fixed was not that much more. 455 unlocked TOPS.
Power was made on Ed Wrights older Dynojet, no tricks were used. FULL exhaust, air filter in...just like it is driven on the street and raced.
Trans has no impact on weight vs rwhp=trap speed. It affects the elapsed time.
Yes the bigger(looser) would affect trap speed, it would put down LESS rwhp through the loose(r) converter.
ET would pick up(better 60 ft and 330) but mph would suffer.
The car with 2 wounded pistons made 441 unlocked, 463 locked.
Yes the 450 unlocked is a guess...the car picked up 2 mph after it was fixed so the power it made after it was fixed was not that much more. 455 unlocked TOPS.
Power was made on Ed Wrights older Dynojet, no tricks were used. FULL exhaust, air filter in...just like it is driven on the street and raced.
Trans has no impact on weight vs rwhp=trap speed. It affects the elapsed time.
Yes the bigger(looser) would affect trap speed, it would put down LESS rwhp through the loose(r) converter.
ET would pick up(better 60 ft and 330) but mph would suffer.
A 455rwhp unlocked car may trap 123 and a 475rwhp car (locked) might be able to trap 126. They are not the same.
Also was the two mph gain made from locked to locked or? Was the 463rwhp run SAE corrected? What conditions were the dyno runs made in?
There are many factors that effect trap speed. And of those many factors, there are TONS of things that can affect each of them.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 3,144
From: Jackstandican
Why would one argue about informative answers to such a vague question? Just retarded...
Another factor to look at is how the engine responds to the power band via time (rpm) which, of course is influenced by drivetrain/gearing as well as the ramp rate to achieve a given peak hp number. You just can't know of a trap speed based on a peak dyno number and no other information.
Another factor to look at is how the engine responds to the power band via time (rpm) which, of course is influenced by drivetrain/gearing as well as the ramp rate to achieve a given peak hp number. You just can't know of a trap speed based on a peak dyno number and no other information.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,935
From: Mobile, Ala..USA
If you're looking for some sort of reassurance that your car is going through the traps at a high enough speed for your measured HP, my answer lies in the AI thread that is now locked. Your trap speed is almost dead on what it should be. Out of curiousity, did you ever dyno that bad@$$ motor before you put it in the car?
I am trying to prove a point, and that point is weight vs rwhp= trap speed.
No matter what trans, locked or unlocked.
David
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,935
From: Mobile, Ala..USA
Why would one argue about informative answers to such a vague question? Just retarded...
Another factor to look at is how the engine responds to the power band via time (rpm) which, of course is influenced by drivetrain/gearing as well as the ramp rate to achieve a given peak hp number. You just can't know of a trap speed based on a peak dyno number and no other information.
Another factor to look at is how the engine responds to the power band via time (rpm) which, of course is influenced by drivetrain/gearing as well as the ramp rate to achieve a given peak hp number. You just can't know of a trap speed based on a peak dyno number and no other information.
Gearing, converter and trans only affect ELAPSED TIME. Not finish line MPH.
Back in the day, in my old 5.0 stang, on regular street tires it would run 13.0@107
Put it on slicks 12.70@107, same power, same weight, better traction same MPH better ET.
How can you guys make it like a moonshot? RWHP vs weigh=trap speed...simple.
David
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,935
From: Mobile, Ala..USA
In your posts you tend to over generalize and over simplify. In the quote above, you said that locked doesn't matter but that oppinion is wrong (in my eyes).
A 455rwhp unlocked car may trap 123 and a 475rwhp car (locked) might be able to trap 126. They are not the same.
A 455rwhp unlocked car may trap 123 and a 475rwhp car (locked) might be able to trap 126. They are not the same.
Lets say the example you give above is the same car.
475 locked WILL trap more MPH than the 455rwhp unlocked...WHY? More rwhp, same weight=more trap speed.
SImple.
David
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,193
From: San Diego, CA
In the example above I was showing you that one car that dyno'd 450rwhp unlocked would trap lower than an identical car that made one simple change...locking the converter.
Your question is too narrow except to give an answer with a wide range. If two identical cars can trap differently based on one variable, then the equation isn't as simple as weight + power = trap.
How do you factor headwinds or aerodynamics? Do you honestly believe a C10 with the same RWHP and weight as your car would run the same trap?
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,935
From: Mobile, Ala..USA
I'm not trying to make it hard, we just see this issue differently. You see trap speed as a simple number, but I don't.
In the example above I was showing you that one car that dyno'd 450rwhp unlocked would trap lower than an identical car that made one simple change...locking the converter.
Your question is too narrow except to give an answer with a wide range. If two identical cars can trap differently based on one variable, then the equation isn't as simple as weight + power = trap.
How do you factor headwinds or aerodynamics? Do you honestly believe a C10 with the same RWHP and weight as your car would run the same trap?
In the example above I was showing you that one car that dyno'd 450rwhp unlocked would trap lower than an identical car that made one simple change...locking the converter.
Your question is too narrow except to give an answer with a wide range. If two identical cars can trap differently based on one variable, then the equation isn't as simple as weight + power = trap.
How do you factor headwinds or aerodynamics? Do you honestly believe a C10 with the same RWHP and weight as your car would run the same trap?
It would be close(the C-10) but would get worse as MPH goes up. BUt we are talking about f bodies in general here.
Locking the converter puts down MORE rwhp...so YES it will trap higher.
in a 3500lb car
450rwhp LOCKED will trap the same mph and 450rwhp UNLOCKED its the same power in the same weight car.Locked or unlocked its the same power.
In a 3500lb car
450rwhp unlocked will mph less than 465 locked, why? 465rwhp is MORE than 450rwhp.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,193
From: San Diego, CA
No matter how childish that is, I won't stoop to that level with the name calling. I'll just enlighten you on the facts that Fastfatboy likes to downplay.
Aleks went 126+ mph in +700DA
Fastfatboy went 122.8mph in NEGATIVE -700DA
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=861934
A best of 97.2mph in the 8th compared to Aleks' damn near 101mph with 1400 feet of DA difference. That is 4 MPH!!!
You do realize you are comparing a car with a larger solid roller, 30+ cubes, a single plane intake, and converted after market 23 degree heads to a ported stock heads/intake car?
Why on earth do you keep harping on and trying to justify your car compared to his? Why aren't you trying to go faster? Why aren't you concerned with why your "superior" (at least in dollars spent) car didn't make more power? Your setup should have decimated his times and MPH and dyno numbers. You had 1400 feet of air difference and many more track passes on your setup.
I hope your inadequacy issues are intensified when Aleks gets his car setup perfect and runs in some mineshaft air. I hope you are man enough to congratulate him when he does. I also hope your car someday runs the MPH in the 1/8th that mine has.
-Sean
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,935
From: Mobile, Ala..USA
You harp on the fact he runs SLIGHTLY more MPH than me.
He weighs 520lbs LESS
AND has 50 MORE rwhp
DUDE, cant you see the difference???????It simply AMAZES me that you cant.
I ran 122.8 in positive 500 ft DA....thats 3.2 mph less than him with 50 less rwhp carrying 520lbs more weight. HEEEELLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOO
David
He weighs 520lbs LESS
AND has 50 MORE rwhp
DUDE, cant you see the difference???????It simply AMAZES me that you cant.
I ran 122.8 in positive 500 ft DA....thats 3.2 mph less than him with 50 less rwhp carrying 520lbs more weight. HEEEELLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOO
David
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,193
From: San Diego, CA
I calculated the DA for you in that thread I posted above. It was -700 when you ran 122.8 and negative 1300 to 1600 when you went 124mph.
Focus on making yours faster (it should be) instead of comparing to or justifying it to others. Perhaps you should start another different thread that asks what a 3375lb, 500rwhp, 6spd car should run and trap? We could discuss the runs in that thread and you could ignore the facts that don't fit into your simplified equation.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,935
From: Mobile, Ala..USA
I calculated the DA for you in that thread I posted above. It was -700 when you ran 122.8 and negative 1300 to 1600 when you went 124mph.
Focus on making yours faster (it should be) instead of comparing to or justifying it to others. Perhaps you should start another different thread that asks what a 3375lb, 500rwhp, 6spd car should run and trap? We could discuss the runs in that thread and you could ignore the facts that don't fit into your simplified equation.
Focus on making yours faster (it should be) instead of comparing to or justifying it to others. Perhaps you should start another different thread that asks what a 3375lb, 500rwhp, 6spd car should run and trap? We could discuss the runs in that thread and you could ignore the facts that don't fit into your simplified equation.
My guess is 129-130.I am interested to see what everyone else thinks...I guarantee you it aint 125-126mph.
If you look at this thread, everyone except you thinks my car is right inline with what it runs now, as do the guys on LS1tech.I put the same thread over there.
Furthermore I will not gut my car to make it run what YOU think it should run. The converter is too tight(2800 rpms on the footbrake is all it will stall) and it weighs 3750 ready to race. But keep in mind if it weighed 3320 like the "other" car I would run 10.50's at 128-129 mph with 50rwhp LESS than the "other" car. Explain that please!!??
I have said all I will say on this subject...its a lost cause.You win.
David
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; Mar 19, 2008 at 02:29 PM.