Computer Diagnostics and Tuning Technical discussion on diagnostics and programming of the F-body computers

VE tables tuning, please explain

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Old Jul 21, 2004 | 10:54 AM
  #16  
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Re: VE tables tuning, please explain

I can see that the LT1 works a little different than the LS1...
Or is it the same just seen by a differetn perspective?
Old Jul 21, 2004 | 04:28 PM
  #17  
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Re: VE tables tuning, please explain

Originally Posted by juiced_lt1
If the ve tables are used in maf mode, what do they measure, or how are they used? Also, what does the pcm use if the MAF goes bad? How will it know how much air is coming in? It's got map, rpm, and air temp, but no maf readings...aka, speed density mode. Ever tuned a speed density car? They rely solely on the ve table.

If you take both of your o2's out of the bungs and let them sit outside, and you run your car for 5 minutes, your ltft's will go to 160, causing you to run PIG rich. Now lets say you get on the road, and punch it, with both ltft's at 160, do you suppose it'll kick into open loop and run fine at WOT? No. It's because the pcm DOES use the ltft's at WOT, and WOT is not OPEN LOOP. WOT simply locks the stft at 128 which locks the ltft's. And remember, when you flash you pcm, your stft and ltft blm's reset to 128, which can change a/f, which is why your car prolly changed a/f ratio's on the dyno.
wot does not lock the blms to 128 (unless you use the blm locker). when you go wot it goes into pe mode. and if your lt blms are above 128 the instant you go into pe mode it will add the same amount of fuel it was adding in normal mode to your pe mode
Old Jul 22, 2004 | 12:11 AM
  #18  
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Re: VE tables tuning, please explain

Like I said before, MY CAR repsonds to VE table changes and it is a 1997 OBD2 Trans-Am. I cannot vouch for ANYONE ELSES car and what it will or will not respond to.
Old Jul 22, 2004 | 12:30 AM
  #19  
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Re: VE tables tuning, please explain

It is known that the obd2 uses the VE tables
Old Jul 22, 2004 | 04:31 PM
  #20  
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Re: VE tables tuning, please explain

Originally Posted by TriPinTaZ
Like I said before, MY CAR repsonds to VE table changes and it is a 1997 OBD2 Trans-Am. I cannot vouch for ANYONE ELSES car and what it will or will not respond to.

obd1 does as well. ive put that to the test.
Old Jul 23, 2004 | 11:21 AM
  #21  
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Re: VE tables tuning, please explain

Originally Posted by juiced_lt1
(maf gms)/(rpm x 8 x cyl. vol.) = Volumetric Efficiency
Originally Posted by juiced_lt1
The VE of a system is a measure of the volume of space displaced by the cylinders for a given time against how much air actually passes through the maf. I don't see why you'd use the ve tables if you knew the rpm, vol of each cylinder, # of cyl, gms of air through the maf, and air temp (for density). That's what calculates the real time VE.
Unfortunately, that is flawed reasoning/math. VE is not a measurement of the amount of air ingested by the engine, (or IOW, the air pump). VE is the the amount of air actually used (ignited, combusted, with it's energy exerted against piston crown) by that air pump. If the air goes in, but ends up coming out unused (or used very inefficiently), why account for it in the VE tables? Same principle if there are holes in two pistons, or a leak in the intake tract, post MAF. This is the reason % of VE at idle/low speed, is affected with the use of cam timing more aggressive than oem. The air is still being pulled in, but not utilized to push piston downward. Same reason the VE of an engine will change/deteriorate with use/mileage, due to compromising of ring seal. There is more to VE than getting the air past the throttle blades. Because the MAF system can do a superior job of compensating for changing VE, it was choice of engineers to maintain emission compliance, for the EPA mandated time requirement.

It wouldn't make sense to use a table if you could get a REAL number.

There is more calculation done by pcm to utilize the MAF input, than when the SD mode of air measurement is used. The reason SD is more responsive.

Originally Posted by juiced_lt1
...but what does carcraft know
Now that you mentioned it...... And, my attitude (with respect to this topic) probably won't change unless I'm convinced carcraft employs some the engineers, that were part of the team GM used to assemble their pcm code. IMO, their sales are influenced heavily by sensationalism. Their product was not meant to replace formal training/instruction.

...(and other PAID tuners for that matter)

Some are very knowledgeable, some are paid more than their efforts/results are worth. Next thing you'll tell us, all doctors are equal in terms of benefit they give to their patients.

BTW, there appears to have been minor alterations in pcm code to allow the VE tables to play a more active roll in the A/F calculations in pcm(s) of OBDII vehicles.

Last edited by arnie; Jul 23, 2004 at 12:02 PM.
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