quicksilver97ta:

The answer is the bottom line. I personally can't speak for JET, or TC for that matter, but I can give you my best interpretation of why it is the way it is.

Lots of history here, so I'll give it my best shot. TC was priced very reasonable and included one definition file. As you know, you can't write to a PCM if you don't have the right definition file. If you acquired a new vehicle that you did not have a defintion for, you had to buy the new definition. Now this was fine for all cars that used the same defintion files (same OS, same paramerters for modification), and in some cases crossed year lines.

Since you had to buy each defintion file separate, you paid more for each vehicles "group" (for lack of a better term) and then you could tune those vehicles with no limitation based on VIN's. The limitation was based on the defintion files you had purchased.

Fast forward to now. TC has licensed the software to JET so he may continue to develop new products, and continue to support his existing customer base. JET has the responsibility to sell and support the product. This product is almost the same as the original, but includes all the available defintion files but at one combined price.

My guess is that if there were no limit on the VIN's, then one copy could of course program an unlimited number of cars. While that sounds good, in reality it would not be because there would be someone who would tune bunches of vehicles, and clean up in the money department! Not a fair shake for the people who develop, advertise, and support the product.

There is an open source program available, but it is technically very challenging. Hence, the reason these guys get paid what they do so they can help the rest of us re-program our cars.

The truth of the matter is, if the manufacturers would quit making it so complicated to work on their vehicles, then it wouldn't require the time and energy of a software engineer to develop and maintain multiple versions of tuning software.

I hope this somewhat answers your question. Please let me know. Thanks!

Fred

 

Forgot to mention in the above post: Up to six VIN licenses per purchased copy of the JET DST Software. Two VIN licenses come with the software, so you could buy up to four more.

Thanks!

Fred

 

Wasn't this allowed with TC and obd1? What was the problem then?

I have Tunercat which I purchased years ago. Does anyone know for sure if there is continued support for people like me? I don't even know if I have the most up to date TC there is since before today, I hadn't used it in over a year.

 

TC still supports his original customers. Go to his website, and check out the various links.

www.tunercat.com

I agree that it used to be sold that way (TCII), but just look at EFI and their unlimited pricing! Exceptionally HIGH. They do sell less expensive versions, but theirs are VIN limited too. Most people don't tune that many cars, and the various software makers/sellers have gone to limited VINS to reflect that.

The tuners (working in the field and making a living) do pay big dollars for that unlimited software.

Not saying it wouldn't be nice to get unlimited VIN's for a certain year/group for real low dollars, but it just doesn't look like that's going to happen any more.

It seems that the tuning software industry is just coming up to the commercial software industry standard of licensing and selling. Not saying this is great or anything, but if they didn't get paid for all their development work, you and I would be taking our cars to the factory dealers just to find out what the codes meant.

Doesn't make the pill any easier to take, but gives some reason to see why.

Thanks!

Fred

 

But those tuning solutions give you a very nice scanner intergrated into the tuning solution. The TC unlimited licensing sort of made up for the no scanner included. What has Jet done to add value to the package? From what I read, they can't even come up with an unlimited VIN licensing price. Are you saying that the maximum number of licenses you can have on 1 cable is 6?

 

Guys:

The max VIN's currently is 6 per cable.

Don't shoot the messenger! I'm just telling you what is going on. There is free software out there. You just need to design your own interface. Otherwise, you'll pay someone else who has designed one for the ease and convenience of not having to do binary coding.

I say that because I did that. Writing code took a very long time and just wasn't worth the time and money, so I stopped the project and just bought the software and the hardware.

If you have the time, here's the free software link:
http://freediag.sourceforge.net/

Link to forum and help for the free software:
http://sourceforge.net/forum/?group_id=34714

Here's the link to patent information:
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?KEY=04/40405.040603

here's a link to the hardware:
http://www.elmelectronics.com/

Good Luck! Once you have it working, will you please post it and let others have it also? I myself would love to have a copy!

Thanks!

Fred

 

i'll be going with an obd1 swap and tunercat obd1 software. it's the cheapest route and i know about 10 people who can help me out....if they'll answer the phone

 

Guys:

Update as of today........


DST Gas Part # 14005 Programming Options Include:
•Fuel parameters including power enrichment and volumetric efficiency
•Ignition tables including spark advance versus load, knock retard and more
•Transmission shift points, shift pressures, and TCC apply and release
•Diagnostic tables including fuel and air, ignition and emissions controls
•Speed calibration tables to correct speedometer and shift points
•Idle controls, fan temperature settings and torque management tables
•Raise or lower speed and rev limiters
•Disable factory diagnostic trouble codes
•To see all of the available features please try our full demo version!

DST part number 14005 will program the following vehicles:
1996-2000 GM Trucks & SUV's with Vortec 4.3, 5.0, 5.7 & 7.4L
1999-2006 GM LS1 Trucks & SUV's with 4.3, 4.8, 5.3, 6.0 & 8.1L
1996-1997 Camaro, Firebird, Corvette & Impala SS LT-1
1997-2004 Camaro, Firebird & Corvette LS-1
2004 GTO LS1
2004-2005 Cadillac CTS-V

DST part # 14005 will allow you to program 4 different vehicles from the list above. Licenses to program additional vehicles can be obtained from JET directly for $150.00 per vehicle. To obtain additional licenses call 800-535-1161.

DOWNLOAD THE FREE GAS DEMO VERSION FROM:
http://www.jetchip.com/downloads/DST_Tuner_Setup.zip


DST Diesel Part # 14006 Programming Options Include:
•Fuel tables and boost parameters for improved performance and mileage
•Correct speedometer after making gear ratio or tire size changes
•Modify top speed limiter and engine rev limiter settings
•Glow plug settings for improved cold starting in cold weather
•Disable factory diagnostic trouble codes
•Injection timing and rail pressure settings
•Torque management and abuse mode parameters
•To see all of the available features please try our full demo version!

DST part #14006 will program the following vehicles:
2001-2005 GM Duramax 6.6L LB7 & LLY Diesel Trucks

DST part # 14006 will allow you to program 4 different vehicles. Licenses to program additional vehicles can be obtained from JET directly for $150.00 per vehicle. To obtain additional licenses call 800-535-1161.

DOWNLOAD THE FREE DIESEL DEMO VERSION FROM:
http://www.jetchip.com/downloads/DSTDieselDemoSetup.exe

 

CBBE0008008ECF2C56530000CC5207D0FA0000077FFF01FF33 AE00FF0040000000045000008039000000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

I see a lot of trash talk here and am wondering if any of you here can interpret what these few lines of hex means ?

If you can't--you need to rely on people like LT1Edit, TunerCat, and JET. They've made this easy, by translating the values into real world units, and have enabled the communication method whereby you can freely install these changes without soldering !! They've got hundreds of hours into this stuff--and I know that each one of you goes to work in the morning and demands a paycheck at the end of the month.

Pay them for this information--because without them, you couldn't do anything other than play with fuel pressure regulators, MAF translaters, and other bolt ons to fool the computer.

LW.

 

Hey, I see it's your first post, welcome to the boards!

 

i completely understand where you're coming from. but...i'm NOT going to pay 500 to have the option to reprogram my ecm. i feel like i'm being taken advantage of, kinda like windows software..., when it comes to programming. ii know how long it takes to write programs and perfect them (i dont program, but i have a friend who does and he's always complaining). why should microsoft require 195 dollars for a program that's given freely and edited by the public. linux is a great interface, it's free, and it is debugged by anyone willing to spend the time doing it. of course you have to have the hardware, just like anything else in the world, but information and the "how to" to use it should be freely accessed. trying to make a buck off of it is taking advantage of the masses.

while i do understand the need for money and i'm in a position where i'm needing it myself, software is intangible. also, if i bought the program, how is it right to limit my use? unless im opening a business using the software and marketing the software out to others, i should have all the access i want. i'm helping others, like this board, and anyone who wants to post to help can. so, if i were to buy another z i'd have to buy the program again. that's wrong IMO. i already have the program, the hardware, why should i buy the same program again?


and to answer your question, no i can't read what you wrote. i have no ambition to learn what you wrote because there's an interface program somewhere out there that will tell me what you wrote. just like i'm not going to learn latin to learn where our english language came from.

you're not going to make much money if too many people think it's too expensive, however; if you lower the price, many more people will be willing to pay and therefore increase profits. you'll make more with a lower profit margin and lower price than with a higher price if noone's willing to buy. and i'm not willing to pay 500 for access to my ecm alone. i'm sure there are many others who are more than willing to pay 200, just like me, to access their computer and would be happy to pay 200. however, 500 is way too much, and it's way too limited when there;'s an easy conversion, and a cheaper program available.

 

Well Tunercat, WHO WROTE THE PROGRAM, saw unlimited vin licensing as ample return on their OBD2 development costs while they sold it. I for one am glad my money went to TC and not Jet.

 

the reason for limits on pcms are simple economics. the internet is to fast and everybody knows it. if there were unlimited pcms one person could undersell them by even half and sell it to two buddies and get his for free. or worse the person that spent months working on this program could sell one and someone post it for everyone. its like giving free pirated copys of movies for free. eventually it is not worth the hassle. or someone is going to crack codes and keep it for themselves. not the guy you want to meet on the street for a race and he is the only one that can tune for his parts. you would lose for sure. but limiting it two two pcms is generous. i would not like to work for months for free. would you?

 

i'm not saying post it on the net, nor am i saying to run a business or post that im capable of mass tuning. i'm saying USE MY MACHINE, WHICH HAS THE PURCHASED AND LEGAL PROGRAM, and tune my cars. i'm not saying it's legal to start a business using the program, this would be for ME. and like windows, i'm not willing to spend that much money for an interface program. i'm switching to obd1, buying the tunercat program and tuning with an aldl cable legally.

the only reason i have microsoft now is that it came with the pc. i'm looking now for an xp alternative that's easy to use cuz i'm running 2k on my laptop. i dont think that tunercat will work with any other program so it looks like i may be stuck on this one....but i'm still not willing to pay 200 for a xp pro cd that is printed on a cd costing microsoft 13 cents to make, copy, and put in a box with a owner's manual.

yes i'm a penny pincher. and i dont mind telling anyone that. most of the parts on my car were bought off ebay or from this site used. i repaired the stuff that wasnt right, painted the stuff that's scratched...anything else that needed it. now i'm looking for a cheap way to tune my own car. i've already paid madwolf to do it once, i dont want the down time of a week or more sending my ecm out and back. also, i want to do a live tune while the car's running using wideband sensors.

 

The reason I bought tunercat in the first place was because spending 500 bucks on LT1edit was ridiculous to me. I didn't mind giving them what they wanted for the price because I thought it was worth it. I've had people ask for def files and I never gave them out.

What did Jet do to the Tunercat program to be able to justify adding 400 dollars to the sale price?

I'm glad I got my TC years ago.