is there a difference? does anyone know?????????????

 

as far as i know. most of these applications for a 94 camaro are a waste of $$$. your better off spending it on something else if the purpose is better performance

 

If you contact techsupport@hypertech.com (Jim) you will receive an official answer. An un-official answer is that the name change is probably simply a later run of production. Hypertech wants everyone to buy a brand new unit and they have some grounds for that. However, they also realize that part of the attraction to a simple application hardware device is that it can be re-sold - so there is some technical support provided.

The number changes such as 390753 and 30025 are the same programmer for a 99 - 2002 camaro/firebird, corvette but my guess is that the 30025 has the added feature of scanning and removing DTCs. The III and Plus designation can be a similar issue of nomenclature handling. There may be some differences but if the seller says it works with a specific model then you can be fairly certain you will be getting the same thing whether it be a Plus or a III. You will probably be getting a newer production run with the III. The caveat is the possibility that some rare case PCMs have received a significant factory issued update and if the hypertech unit was produced before that update there could be a calibration error(6) and the programmer will not proceed. Once again, email tech support to get the real answer.

Just for the record, I bought two used programmers from Hypertech and do not consider them a waste of money. If your car remains fairly stock and doesn't have issues like exhaust leaks or trouble codes, doesn't have aftermarket headers, a cam or ignition change or forced induction, Hypertech's power tuning will suit you well. They have dyno graphs to provide evidence of performance enhancements. I have a first hand experience that the power tuning does indeed have a positive effect.

Regards

 

The issue is not really that their stuff doesn't work at all, it's just ridiculously overpriced for what it does.

 

If I were to send my LS1 PCM away for a one time power tune, afaik it would cost approximately $250. Although I bought both of my tuners used at a fraction of their retail, even a new #30025 can be had for under $350 shipped. I weighed the situation and for me, the idea of owning a tuner -albeit limited- that can be used indefinately and even resold later is a better value because I can alter common parameters and remove the power tune at will. If Hypertech's dyno graph is correct, I spent $200 for 13 hp and 19 lb ft torque. After the slp catback, cai and lid, this was the least expensive and easiest modification I could make for a power gain.

Hypertech's suggested retail is $466 and they aren't shy about telling it but they still provide tech support for resold units even though they recommend buying new. Because I have worked in manufacturing and development for 35 years, I know how astoundingly expensive it is to engineer, prove, produce and market a complex item such as a hand held computer. The Hypertech is expensive because it doesn't have the market volume of a television or ipod.

When I replace my heads and cam, the hypertech's power tuning will become useless and I'll need to buy the services of the send-away tuners. I will still be able to adjust the temp fans, speedo, rev and top speed limiter and shift firmness (on my A4). As unpopular of an opinion as it is becoming, until then, I still feel my money was well spent on my Hypertechs.

Regards

 

Not for the kind of tune a hypertech does (changing stuff in the constants table and shift points). PCM4less or Madz28 will do that kind of simple tune for $50-$100. Or you can buy software + a cable to change anything yourself for around $200, both are cheaper options than the hypertech (unless you buy it used for dirt cheap), and have been proven to do a better job.

Don't bet on that. If you load a hypertech tune over a real custom tune, you will often run into problems or overwrite the changed parts of the custom tune.

 

I checked the price and it would cost me $150 to make 4 cafeteria changes to my PCM. This price does not include power tuning or shipping. Each update will cost $50 plus shipping. As for the custom tuning being better; So I have read - but haven't been able to uncover or verify anything the send-in tuning does differently to a stock engine. If the dynamometer graphs are true, they speak for themselves.
I can agree that it would be wrong to program with the hypertech after a custom tune as the hypertech seems to do a global binary edit. As for the hypertech tune interfering with any other changes made to the eeprom, that is where the hypertech shines, You can remove the tuning, keep or sell the unit and send the pcm away clean. From what I have come across, the send-in tuners can remove the hypertech edits in the event it hasn't already been done.

Have you owned/used a hypertech programmer on a basically stock drivetrain? I read a lot of strong opinions and negatives througout the forums regarding the hypertechs. Most posts are for steering away from them without exact or solid information but wonder about first hand experience.

 

Aside from being overpriced, Hypertech tuning is also a joke. They claim they make adjustments to fuel tables and timing, but I've examined their calibration files and they do not. Sure, you can do the few minor things like skip shift removal, fan adjustments, etc., but it WILL NOT IN ANY WAY increase horsepower or torque. As has already been stated, you would be much better off going with PCMforless or MADZ28 (or a local tuner if there is one in your are) if you don't want to purchase the cable and software to do it yourself.

In regards to using the Hypertech to make changes to a calibration file already loaded to the PCM (such as one that might have been done by PCMforless or MADZ28), you can't do so without erasing the file that was loaded. When you use the hypertech or any other programming device/software, to make the changes you desire it must first erase the current calibration file loaded into the memory chips and then write the new one. It won't just erase the memory location of the change you want to make and then load what was changed. So if you had your timing tables changed and then want to use the Hypertech to adjust the fan turn on temperature, you'll end up with the stock timing tables again (because that's exactly what Hypertech uses in their calibration files).

Simply put, there is absolutely no reason to ever purchase one of these "programmers." Call a few local shops in your area, see if they can do what you want. If not, MADZ28 or PCMforless is a much better choice if you don't want to do it yourself.

 

This is quite a statement. If Hypertech is selling a product and advertising dyno graphs on their website with false information in order to sell their programmers, they should be reported to the Federal Trade Commission. They are also prime for a class action law suit. I had read in another post that the hypertech powertune advanced wot timing by 7 degrees. BTW, I have two units with their manuals and have never seen anything regarding skip shift removal. Which model are you referring to? This will be an easter egg if that feature is present and I have been missing it.

When I first installed the powertune, I noticed no difference at all. When I installed the 160 degree powerstat and selected the powertune, the car sounded different and produced a noticeable change in performance. I hesitate to call it an astounding change but to me it was significant. I realized that the powertune didn't come into effect without the protection of lower engine temperatures. It is assumed when choosing the powertune that the highest octane fuel available will be used but telling the programmer of a lower temperature thermostat presence is apparently the key.

It's a bit of an effort but because I do have an AKM cable, TunerCat and laptop, I will take a reading on the PCM of my 95 and try to go through some of the tables and post the results. This will take some time.... I already have a reading from the PCM before the powertune. TunerCat has provision to compare files. It has now reached the point where some actual data needs to be presented.

I am going to contact techsupport@hypertech.com and see what they have to say to the claim you have made and ask for instruction on how I can verify that the powertune actually changes something regarding timing and fuel tables. Thanks for a heads up on this.

Regards

 

I'm not quite certain on this one, so I might be mistaken. I thought I remember reading that the HPP+/3 was capable of removing the skip shift on the M6 cars. Perhaps not, but since all it takes is the changing of the CAGS memory position from 1 to 0 in the calibration file, it wouldn't be hard to do in a contained device such as an HPP.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't really know much about this area. I can assure you that they do not advance timing on OBD1 LT1/4 cars at all, anywhere in the tables. It also does not adjust the fuel tables for Open loop nor make any changes to the VE tables (on Speed Density or MAF cars). In fact, if they advanced the timing on any LT1 by 7 degrees at WOT, they would end up with knock. The LT1 timing tables are already aggressively tuned and you'd be lucky to add maybe 1-2 degress without seeing knock. Personal experience speaking here.

I'm sorry but seat of the pants is not a good indicator of power (I'm not trying to be mean or nasty here either). I've known many people (both V8 sports car drivers and ricers alike) who claims they've felt a huge 50 HP difference with the installation of a CAI or exhaust. They were probably lucky if the picked up 5-10 HP. The lower temp thermostat and fan temp programming won't increase HP or torque per se, but it will help prevent heat soak while the car is stilling still. The stock temp settings are designed to help the car pass emissions and will certainly lower the performance of a vehicle if it's been sitting in traffic for a few minutes without the fans running. However, this does not increase HP or TQ over what the engine would have had it not been sitting.

You can certainly do so if you want. If you do, you'll verify what I've already done. Tunercat is the program I use to do my tuning (it's an excellent program and I recommend it to everyone who is interested in doing their own tuning) and I did exactly what you said. I went through 93-95 HPP programs and used the TC compare option to check what had been changed. The only areas that were changed with the HPP "Powertune" were in the Engine Constants area (things such as removal of Fuel Cutoff from the speed limiter and engine fan temp setting) and in the Automatic Transmission tables if the calibration file is for the firming up of shifts. I've never checked any programs other than LT1, so I can't speak for any other engines that Hypertech has a programmer for.

 

Okay, I got a reply from Hypertech's technical supervisor Jimmy Harsson. He absolutely verified that the powertune for my 94-95 LT1 engine received changes to the air/fuel mixture and timing curve to acquire the power gain from the 345752 model hypertech programmer II .

I explained I had installed the 160 powerstat and his response was the following: "We gained 14hp and 24tq additional at the rear wheels on the 1994-1995 LT1".

I have asked permission to post his entire explanation in his reply to me, in email, and am awaiting that. It's a good message with validated information and hope to put it up.

I realize you don't feel my SOTP experience is a good indication of performance and understand your opinion. However, in the end, 50 feet of rubber from 2nd gear is all that really matters to me.

In the mean time, I am in the process of changing out my posi-traction unit but will take a pcm reading over the holidays and produce some data.

Regards

 

LOL, I'm sorry but, the salesman of the product making a statement to that effect does not qualify as absolute verification in my book.

I don't really care whether or not it does this anyway, the breadth of individual experience I have seen with the hypertech (almost all of it ****ty) compared with other tunes speaks for itself.

 

Obviously your mind is made up and what's with the insulting LOL sarcasm?

I have first hand experience with the units. I said he absolutely verified the timing and fuel changes were made when I selected the 160 thermostat. Trouble with this thread is mis-quotes and bad interpretation of what is being implied. I can see you and doommaster have an immovable negative opinion on them but there are others, like myself that want to know more than those opinions.

The tech supervisor isn't a salesman, it should be obvious that there's a lot of education, knowledge and experience in the difference. If you think he's flat out lying because he's part of the company then there's no way you or anyone with that belief will be moved.

If someone thinks there's no difference and needs an objective witness, I'm it. I have no interests in Hypertech other than the units are valuable to me and I want other people to have a choice like I do. The problem I'm seeing is what looks like people ingesting other people's opinions and going on a crusade based on what they have read.

 

Look, I'm not certain what the issue is here, but if you are going to take the word of a Hypertech sales rep (or sales tech, or tech supervisor, or whatever they call themselves), you obviously don't realize that they don't have to be totally honest with you.

Do you have any idea how many times I've gone into a store such as Best Buy, Circuit City, or other computer place and asked the "techs" a question about a product and they've fed me a line of BS because they think I'm just another guy they can make a sales off of? I'm a computer engineer, so I know when I'm getting the sales pitch on a piece of computer equipment. This is what you are getting from Hypertech.

Let me also tell you that "We gained 14hp and 24tq additional at the rear wheels on the 1994-1995 LT1" doesn't mean anything. Have you ever actually had a car on a dyno? If you have, you know that you can dyno a car two times and come up with about a 5-10 HP and TQ difference each time. And to top it off, you can also make the dyno say just about anything you want. There are options in the computer program to make adjustment to the HP and TQ readings based on weight, air temp, humidity, and dozens of other variables.

As for your SOTP measurement, I could get 50 feet of rubber out of 2nd get when I first picked up my car stock. No modification was necessary. If you really want to end this debate, please send me a copies of your PCM calibration files stock and with the HPP program. I also have copies of the HPP and stock 94 and 95 LT1 files at home, so when I get a chance I will post copies of them. You will see very clearly then that there are no changes to the fuel or timing tables AT ALL.

 

You aren't the only one with first hand experience with the units either. Hate to break it to you, but how do you think I got the copies of the PCM calibration files for the HPP? I really don't care if you buy Hypertech or not it's your money to waste. But the simple fact is, their units are overpriced, overhyped by the company, and you are not an objective witness at all. I have over 4 years worth of tuning experience with LT1s as well as various other GM V8s. I've been down this road before.