alright well i'm getting a lot of knock retard (a few degrees even at idle when i first start it up - open loop). i just changed my knock sensor btw (same readings as before). i was planning on throwing some 110 leaded in to see if im still getting the knock retard. my two questions are:

1. what exactly does it mean if my knock retard is the same or goes away

2. is it ok if i use c16 (117 octane) instead of 100 or 110

 

I don't see anything in the engine that would require 110 leaded or C16. Try some 100-octane unleaded to see if the knock retard goes away. Why risk screwing up the O2 sensors with lead. Yes, the stock sensors will tolerate lead for a few hours, but why risk it.

If the retard disappears when you run the higher octane fuel, you need to look at all the possible causes of detonation, and see which one is causing the problem:

-too much advance in the tune
-carbon buildup raising compression ratio
-hot spots on pistons or head chamber surfaces
-excessive coolant temp
-excessive inlet air temp
-poor quality fuel
-running lean
-plugs too hot

If the high octane fuel doesn't solve the knock retard problem, look for the sources of false knock:

-mechanical noise - roller rockers, exhaust rattles, loose motor mount
-electrical interference - high voltage wire run too close to the knock sensor wire

Did you verify that you have the correct 4.5kohm knock sensor? Did you verify you do not have a DTC 43 code? Did you verify the voltage supply to the knock sensor from the PCM? Did you verify the resistance from the knock sensor pin to the engine block?

 

i did not meter the sensor/wires. its pulling the same amount of timing though as the last sensor. not throwing any codes. the tune is about the same as stock timing right now, some of it is actually backed off a little to try to get rid of the knock retard. the valvetrain does make some noise, i've readjusted a couple of times to try to see if that changes anything. as far as the o2 sensors, i bought new ones and i was just gonna wait to put them in till after i ran the leaded gas. im sure the ones i have in now will last enough anyway just to test a few times.

 

alright i am running 116 in it now and still getting knock retard. does this pretty much mean its false knock? what should i do now? back off the timing until it stops pulling it? when i put it in earlier, i drove for about 5-10 minutes after getting into closed loop without getting any knock retard, then all of the sudden it started pulling a bunch.

 

If it's false knock you do not need to reduce timing. You can adjust the tune to reduce the amount pulled or just disable it at wot (max retard at wot table).

 

im getting knock retard at idle and part throttle as well. should i try desensitizing the sensor with resistors or putting teflon tape around the threads of the sensor?

 

I have a dumb question related to this topic. Is knock count the same thing as knock retard? In freescan I get plenty of knock count but no knock retard. Is this normal or what?

 

and i usually get the opposite: i get knock retard but not too much knock count

 

I think the knock count is how many noises the sensor hears. It has a limit of when the knock sensor reads so many, it starts to pull timing. I'm not sure what causes knock retard without counts. Maybe "loud" noises that the sensor doesn't bother to count, just adjusts for. I really don't know.

 

man i just wanna disable it! but i still wanna feel like im somewhat safe too. i think i may try doing the resistor deal to desensitize the sensor

 

I ended up just disabling it with the resistor years ago and never had any problems. Besides, I like living on the edge YMMV

 

the only thing im wonder is: how will i know when to stop adding timing? when i hear it detonate?

 

If you know how to read the plugs, you can see a ring on the center electrode porcelain as soon as it starts to detonate - maybe even before you could hear it. I leave that up to my tuner, though.