I was wondering if anyone has any idea how to switch out the suspension on a 69' SS Camaro so that it doesn't do the roll on turns. Can you customize wishbone suspension so that is would fit? There has to be a way to get the same effect if not actual wishbone on one. How do these die hard car guys with these vintage muscle cars get all that power to work with the car. If you have any ideas on how to harness the power so not to lose control in turns, etc. Let me know, please.

 

'69 Camaro? WOW! First Gen F-cars didn't have very good suspension geometry for a couple of reasons. One is that the narrow tires of the day were pretty much insensitive to camber, and they had very little grip so cornering g's were in the .6-.7 range rather than .9-1.0 range possible today. The other is that, given the tires of the day, ride comfort was a higher priority than ultimate cornering power.

Folks like Roger Penske and Mark Donahue who raced these cars in the early TransAm races had the same problem you are facing. There are various things you can do to improve the suspension. Cornering g, like speed, costs money. How fast do you want to go?

The basic approach I'd recommend is:

1) lowering about 1 to 1.5 inches with aftermarket springs which are matched front to rear. These will be somewhat stiffer, but not so stiff as to be terribly uncomfortable.
2) decent, maybe adjustable, gas shocks. There are "coil-over" spring/shock conversions available for the front, I believe.
3) Larger front and rear antiroll bars (aka "swaybars") which are matched to the springs.
4) much wider wheels and tires than stock '69. With the correct offsets, you can probably fit 16 x 8's with a good 245/50 tire in the stock wheelwells with the lowered car. 17's are also a possibility.
54) maybe aftermarket a-arms with stiffer bushings, like "DelAlum" from Global West. Unless you also change the spindle (aka "knuckle' or "upright") and/or relocate the A-arm mounting points you will not change the geometry with just the arms.

Doing the above, provided you select the correct matched components should result in a .9g lateral acceleration '69 that
handles about as well as those TransAm race cars did in '69. The trick is finding the correctly matched components.


The next steps are more costly, and unless I was track racing, I'd not do it. It involves replacing the subframe with a redesigned one which uses more modern suspension geometry, steering and suspension parts. We're talking many thousands of $ here.

My $.02

 

You need to post this on "Classic Tech", or "Autocross......" boards, not Advanced Tech. I'll move it to "Classic Tech".... if you want it on "Autocross......" just copy and paste it to a new thread there.

 

Try this site:

http://www.pro-touring.com/


There are alot of guys there that are doing suspension mods to early Camaros and Firebirds. You will find everything from simple mods to the most extreme at this particular site. Most of the time, it is not even recommended to put a rear sway bar on the 1st Gen F-bodies depending on how you modify it. It over-corrects it, so to speak. You can also look at what I have done to my car in my signature below. It definitely improved the handling, but there is alot more that you can do.

Hope that helps!

Bill B.

 

Really good suggestions, Bill. I like your mods. I forgot about Herb Adams' subframe mounts and antiroll bars. Herb did much of the original suspension tuning for the first TransAm at Pontiac Engineering. Remember the "PFST" concept car? It was mostly Herb's baby.

 

The most important steps in making a 1st gen handle:

1) Replace the subfarme bushings with Poly or Aluminum. Also add a set of weld-in subframe connectors. If you don't have a stable chassis all the trick suspension parts are pretty much useless.

2) Correct the front a-arm geometry error. This can be done by repositioning the upper a-arm (the guldstrand mod) or by replacing the a-arm with one that is shaped differently. The 2 best aftermarket a-arms are made by "Detroit Speed and Engineering" ( www.detroitspeed.com ) or "Global West" ( www.globalwest.net ) .

3) Replace the facotry mono-leaf springs with a mulit-leaf conversion.

4) replace the front springs with lowering (and stiffer) units. I suggest something in the 500lbs/inch range.

5) Decent shocks. I really like Edelbrocks for street cars, use Koni if you have a little more budget and can tolerate a stiffer ride.

 

Yeah, ol' Herb was a big gun for GM way back when. Anyway, I bought those VSE parts at least 10 years ago and finally finished installing them about 3 years ago. I had actually installed the shocks earlier when I installed the springs, but I never put much mileage on the car afterwards. I don't know if you can even get VSE parts anymore. Moroso used to sell them, but I'm not sure if they still do and don't know if VSE is even still in business.

I will eventually do either the Guldstrand mod or replace the upper control arms with Detroit Speed & Engineering or Global West units as Lowend mentioned. I think I'd also like to do the weld-in subframe connectors (probably Detroit S&E's).

So far, the glass leaf springs have been pretty good, but I may replace them later. Some folks say they haven't had good luck with them. I need to put more miles on them to come to a better conclusion about them. At this point, I like them just fine. I just need to drive the car more. I want an overdrive and better motor, too.

Take Care!
Bill B.