chief455

why didn't I think of that
"the shortest distance between two points is - funny car headers!"

livewire516

Well, this is my first automatic car. Which is a huge turn off. Would less fabrication be require if I were to use a T-5? I know the factory T-5's are glass and I believe a TKO is worse option than a boneyard T56, I know TexMoCo offers built T-5's rated for 425 ftlbs for around $1300. Does anyone know of better options, or am I right thinking a t56 is a whole other level when it comes to a tranny.

jerminator96

The T56 is light-years better than a T-5, in my opinion. If you didn't want the hassle of fitting a T-56 then I would say your next best option is a M-22. It's a solid, proven transmission that was offered in first gens and therefore should fit. But then again that doesn't solve your gas mileage problem by only having 4 gears.

I'll look around and see if I can remember the guy who had the LS1/T56 camaro and direct him to this thread to shed some light on the matter.

67 LS-1 & T-56

Said guy has been found!!

I would definitely go with the 6 speed if possible. I ran back and forth from Houston to San Marcos on IH10 for 3 years getting 27 mpg in 6th gear...then dropping down to 3rd or 4th for some fun here or there! It shouldn't be too tough to set up....you just need a TH400 style crossmember, the hydraulics and hardware to set up your clutch pedal and you'll be good to go. I did the whole setup in my driveway. (granted its been a while) The toughest part is adjusting the travel of your clutch pedal to get the master cylinder to (dis)engage the clutch properly. You'll also need an adapter plate on the firewall to get the master cylinder mounted at the right attitude. Theres a couple of guys who sell them, it shouldn't be too tough to find them online. Let me know if you need any specific tips!


edit: I just realized we're talking about a Poncho here (thats what I get for not reading the whole thread)


Im guessing you'll want to seek out an LT1 style T56.....that should require less modification. My assumption is based on the fact there may be more parts available to convert from an SBC setup to a pontiac rather than LS1. Good Luck!

chief455

Great to hear from one who has accomplished
I bet over on the performanceyears or clasicalpontiac boards if you search or post - you'll find a Pontiac with this done to it.
I know the M-21/22 with a Gear Vendors over/underdrive has been done - that's a neat set up there

Of course - this is all theory for now - thread started with our guy looking for first engine building tips - we'll be waiting!

livewire516

It is true that the thread is wandering, but I'm all over the place too, so I have no problem with it. I'm throwing ideas in every direction: As an issue of time, and experience my teacher who restored a 69' bird in high school took the route of getting a low mileage, some-what stout engine + tranny from a boneyard, and putting bowtie mounts on. That was in 1985 and a 74' chevy was his choice. Few salvage yards in my area seem to care about anyhting before 91' or even 96'. (Shout out: any good boneyards in the Philly area???) Now, as much as I would like to stick with a poncho, factoring time and expense this sounds like a good possibility. My question is, what could be a low-mileage, low-fuss and low-cost (I'm not thining LSx/LTx) swap that could eventually facilitate 12.8s? I was considering an L31, and switch it back to a carb so I wouldn't have to change to a high-pressure set up, even though I saw something about a high pressure mech pump in Hot Rod recently. That was a lot... see, I'm everywhere right now.
Whaddya think?

jerminator96

Any Chevy 350 block is an adequate platform for 12.8's in that weight range. You can pickup a cheap 350 from a Chevy van, truck, camaro, etc. for less than $500 that will run. Later on down the road you can add some Dart Pro 1 heads, a single plane intake, a big nasty bump stick, and you're at your goal.

The best thing about the 350 is it didn't change from the late 60's until 1992 with the introduction of the LT1 (with the exception of making roller cams standard in 1986) so there are a lot of them out there.

chief455

You asked - I think that is lame. Get a Camaro 6 cylinder body and put the 150 zillionth small block in it
Leave a Poncho a Poncho.

You had my utmost attention and respect as a newbie wanting to get stout numbers from a Pontiac set up - unconventional even!
Look in racingjunk.com, the local papers, Auto Locator, etc - you'll find a suitable 1st gen small block already built up for a grand or less. Add the required headers/radiator/swap components and you'll have a stale cheeseburger from McDonalds like everyone else.

Sorry - you asked what we thought

jerminator96

chief455 makes a good point. I wouldn't begrudge you dropping in a 350 beater motor until you can afford to build up a Pontiac replacement, but he's right, it's definitely far from original.

livewire516

it isn't original, it's temporary, in the end I do want a 400 tearing things up, but I do know that I have to be able to see progress to feel motivated about this project. I'd rather have it be a cookie-cutter-mobile than one of the 7 out of 10 project cars that are resold before finished. I'm figuring out what it would take to be a driver, so I can give my current DD a 1993 GP to my bro.

Once again, a source for poncho motors from boneyards around philly? Is it correct I don't want a 400 block after '75 due to some wegiht-reduction program?

Quick q just on design. Why is it easy to get 12.8s outta sbc when most people recommend at least a pontiac 400 (more often a 455). Now is this due to the availability of sbc speed parts compared to ponchos, or that poncho builders have larger engines available so why not use them? Or is the sbc simply better than the poncho?

jerminator96

It's easy to get good power out of a Chevy 350 (note I'm not talking about the Pontiac 350 or Olds 350) because there is such a huge aftermarket for it. It is a great platform but as I'm sure you know, heads are what make the power, not the bottom end. Because there is such a huge market for it parts are fairly cheap too. I think that is really what people are saying when they say it's easy to make good power with a chevy 350, they're saying it's cheap.

I think you can run 12.8s with 400hp, and Helen Keller could build a 400hp 350.

byrons1502

what is the status. i love ponchos