heres a thought you guys asaying how a 302 isnt a typical engine due to its solid cam,low torque numbers over 4000 and high vaccum,idle what if he used a new hydraulic roller cam 4 bolt main 350 put a 283 sized crank and bearing to make it work and used a big cam to match it would be a 302 and it would make lots of power

 

Some Hp/Tq numbers for 1967-69 302 Chevy engines - Stock exhaust, single Holly 780 = 290@5800 Hp and 290@4200 Tq. It pulls real good from 3000 up to 6500. I replaced the 3.37 rear with a 4.10 and it was more driveable on the street. It didn't hurt MPG much - 10 to 12 in town and 15 to 17 Highway @ 60 MPH (LOL).
Some one put together a 302 LT1 combining the 265 crank and 350 rods and pistons. Super Chevy or Chavy HiPerformance did an article on it.

 

Those are the "factory" numbers. Everyone knows it was closer to 400 HP!

 

i read somewhere that they were up to 370 horse depending on the option that was purchased

 

well, think about it this way - displacement=torque.
A 305 has 3 more cubes than a 302.
Yeah, there's a few more things that come into play than that, like the 305's small bore, and crappy heads, and that the factory didn't build them for crazy RPM's like they did the 302, but still...
Also, remember that whenever you increase the cam size for higher RPM power, you lose lower RPM torque. So, since this engine can rev to 9000...

Don't worry, you'll still have more torque on the lowend than a Honda, just not as much as a typical street 350 which can easily be cranking out 300+lb-ft down in the 2K rpm range.

Basically, it you're looking for ET's, or to beat all comers on the street - forget about a 302 unless you're going with some form of power adder, and even then a blown 350 will waste a blown 302 if equally well built.
BUT, if you want a fun car that's different from all the 350's, and are willing to put up with what might be a tempermental engine at times, etc... Then go for it!
She's gotta be a blast to drive. I'd try it with vortech heads - they beat the crap outta camel humps, and be sure to get domed pistons to keep the CR up. Then get a nice close-ratio manual trans and 4.1 gears out back! It would suck on the highway, but around town, and on empty backroads I'll bet it'd be like an automotive wet dream!

and don't forget, if you get tired of the 302, you can always buy a stroker kit and take it up to 383!

 

Ok, I found some Hp/Tq numbers. Of course they are not from a stock 302. They are numbers that Chevy engineers got from a TRACO engine that Mark Donohue - Roger Penske ran at Sebring in 1968. As received from TRACO 419.5 peak Hp at 6800 RPM and 360.5 ft/lbsTq at 5600 RPM. Chevy put fresh heads and Dyn. (Dynomoter?) Headers on it and acheived 458 peak Hp at 7100 RPM and 380 ft/lbs Tq at 5800 RPM. These numbers came form the Camaro Untold Secrets 1967 - 1969 book by Wayne D. Guinn. The Dyno run chart is on page 116 and 117.

 

A stock 302 is around 350 hp even though it's rated at 290. Add the off-road 140 cam, crossram setup and 1-3/4" headers and you're over 425.

 

yeah, but how much torque, and (more importantly) at what RPM?

look at those RPM numbers above - not a great street engine! Geez, the torque peaks about where HP peaks on most 350's.
Again, if it's your thing (and I love RPM's too) go for it - it's just something to keep in mind that whenever you want to MOVE, you're going to have to rap it out all the way.
and, remember, it's easy to build a 350 to rev 7000, even 8000 rpm. Just get some decent rods and pistons. Plus you'll have more hp+tq all across the board (especially lowend)

 

isnt the peak torque on an ls1 aroun 4,xxx rpms thats still a hell of a street motor stock

 

yes, peak torque on the LS1's is in the 4K range, but they're also alot newer cars with heads that make camel humps look like cafeteria straws, and being a bigger engine, will have more lowend torque.
Especially if it's a carbed 302, peak torque at nearly 6000 rpm means that the idle is going to be over 1000rpm, and little vacuum.

 

I owned a new 68 Z28 way back when and I can tell you.... they are like nothing else above 6000 rpm. I also have an LS1 Camaro and that doesn't come close to the 68. I turned a 12.2 in the qtr with that car and the only thing I did was install the headers that came in the trunk ans threw on some slicks. I missed a shift one time and the engine turned 10,000 (no rev limiter in 1968...). It did not hurt the engine in any way. Go for the 302.

I am building a Vintage trans-am Camaro with a 1970 second gen. The rules for 1970 were stilla max engine size of 305 ci (5 litres). I have a 327 small journal block and a 350 4-bolt main block. If I go with the 327 block, I can put a forged 283 crank and rods in it. The cranks are easy to find, check ebay. If I go with the 350 block, I will have the more stury 4-bolt main block I have 3 choices. Find a real large journal 302 Z28 crank (ebay has 2 right now), use a forged 283 crank with bearing spacers, or buy an aftermarket custom crank from Eagle, Crower or Scat (all very expensive. I don't know of anyone who has used the bearing spacers to build a 302 but they are used all the time to drop a 350 crak in a 400 block and come out with a high-rev screamin 377. I have not heard anything bad about those spacers.

I'll let you know which way I go. Having owned and raced a new 68 302 many years ago, I can still hear it in my mind...... it screamed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

i never said use the double hump heads they are out dated get some that flow better and see where the power goes

 

Ive had the chance to drive a (real) 69 Z28 restored to stock specs (wicked black with white stripes, black interior 4spd). And yes, they are that much of a dog at low rpms. But they sure do make power up top and get there quick. Not a neck snapping engine but it gets up to speed reasonably well. I like torque, and lots of it for the street. Build for torque, any extra HP you can get while maintaining that nice torque curve is just a bonus. Having said that I am currently driving a engine that is built for HP not torque go figure. Im with classic z28 on the destroked 400 though. They tend to make equal hp/torque #s and have a good torque curve. IE if you have 450hp you have 450ft/lbs (and that is easily achievable in a very streetable engine).
CoryM