I am looking to pick up a '69 Camaro without a motor and tranny and am trying to decide which motor to put in it.. I thought building up a 302 chev would be kind of cool.. Has anyone built one using either a 350 or 327 block with the 283 crank?? I think it would be nice to have something different beside all of the 350's out there! I know it wouldn't be a DZ302 but it wouldn't be presented as such.

Thanks

Gary

 

the idea integuied me as well
but i came to the conclusion that it's not worth it... because you can build up powerful 383 of even a big block for not that much more and get much better 1/4 mile et's
so unless you want to go trans am racing with your camaro, it's not really worth it

 

Actually, I am not planning on racing it.. I just wanted something different and since I will be building it up over a period of time I thought that it would kind of cool... I have a friend who can get me a 350/327 block pretty cheap as well as a 283 crank...

Gary

 

gcope-

have you ever driven a chevy 302? it's not the most docile "around town" type of setup but it is very fun. you really feel like you're back in the muscle car era when you drive one. it's so much different than a typical small block chevy.

here are some pros and cons from one 302 owner's perspective...

cons:
uses a lot of vacuum so it needs to idle kinda high
doesn't have much low end torque (below 4,000 RPM)
very tempermental to hot weather (but LOVES colder air)
must adjust valves somewhat frequently (solid cam)

pros:
super cool motor with a very unique history
rev to over 9,000 RPM (if blueprinted & balanced)
sound of a small block chevy revving past 7,000 RPM
incredibly powerful between 5,500 and 7,500 RPM

 

Sounds like a good engine for around here! It is usually fairly cool and with all of the rain we get not having bunches of torque at the low end may actually make it easier to drive when things are wet.. Plus just saying that you have a 302 in your car sounds awesome!!
How high do they idle?? Does anyone have a HP/Torque chart for a 302??

Gary

 

Personally if I had a 327 block, I'd just build a 327. I haven't seen car with a well built 327 in years. Seems most people toss them for something larger.

 

Agree. It's fun b/c most folks are so clueless they actually say, "isn't 302 a Ford motor" or "chevy didn't make a 302, they made a 307." But when you meet folks that know what a 302 is they "ooh" and "ahh".

if the weather is cool it'll idle at 1,000 or so, but when it is hot and humid i'll bump the idle up a couple hundred.

i don't but let's just say the curves are very steep.

good luck whatever you do.

 

i was just going to say, if you really want a 302 (and a lack of torque) go buy a 5.0 mustang

 

302s are really cool. Big bore + small stroke = fun. Heads aren't much of an issue because of the huge bore, and the ammount of time you have to fill the cylinder is greater than on a bigger motor. Sure they're peaky and don't make much torque down low...but neither does a honda. Now, if you want a driver car that you can take out in the rain and drive in traffic with, I would reccommend something with a little more torque and a smaller cam so that it isn't as tempermental. Motors only like to run in the RPM range which they were designed for, which means if you lug it, it won't like you. However, if you like the feel of a lopey cam and screaming top end power, this is the motor for you. I want one!

 

How could an engine with a smaller stroke have more time to fill a cylinder than an engine with the same bore and a longer stroke? Correct me if I'm wrong, but a piston would reach BDC and TDC quicker with a shorter stroke and remain there for a shorter duration. An engine that needs higher PRM's to run well would give less time to fill a cylinder even with the same stroke and bore of one that makes power in lower RPM's. Good flowing heads are always an issue, especially when you are making power in the upper RPM's. Lower RPM power requires more velocity.

 

On an engine with a longer stroke, the piston speed is higher, meaning that even though the camshaft is open for the same ammount of time, there is more area to be filled. It's not really that there is more or less time to fill the cylinder, but in the same ammount of time, there is more area to be filled. The point I'm making is that 18* stuff isn't needed on a motor of this size unless you intend to turn it really ridiculously high like 11k. With some off the shelf heads and a dual plane (and good valvetrain), you're looking at around 7500rpm+

 

It would be very cool to say you have a 302 Chevy in your Camaro!! Are they really that much of a dog on the low end??!! I have never driven one but have heard a few at Camaro shows!! I love the sound they make through the chambered exhaust!!

Does anyone know if they modified (milled off) anything on the standard 327/350 block to handle the 283 crank?? I think I am going to start collecting parts to build my 302!! I have seen several items on Ebay like the crank, cam and rods but am a little leary about buying things that way.. I found some of the stuff in the Classic Industries catalog but haven't found much on the PAW website... Any websites that sell rebuild kits???

Thanks

Gary

 

I would be kind of careful of the stuff you get off of ebay. The stuff I have recieved has all been good, thankfully. There will be no way to skimp on the crank if your are going to build a 302...either an original DZ crank or a forged 283 crank are the only options for a 3" stroke unless you wanna shell out over a G for an aftermarket custom piece. The 283 cranks as well as the '67 and '68 DZ cranks are small journal cranks and will require either a 327/302 or 283 block and rods, or spacers. Make sure to have the whole assembly balanced, and go with the lightest rods/pistons you can. That stuff is like voodoo to me, but I know it works. Hyper pistons I would assume should be fine for the application, since 450hp is prolly all you'll want to make. It'll be a cool motor!

 

I thought that some '68 and all '69 302's were large journal cranks??
I agree on the Ebay thing, I have had pretty good luck on Ebay but something like this you would be taking a chance...

Gary

 

67 & 68 DZ cranks???? Huh????

302's are just plain wicked, and while I'd love to have an original 67 MO or MP, or 68 MO someday, they're just to damn rare to mess with. (The 67-68 cranks although based on the 283 design, were slightly different and exclusive to the 302, while the block castings were the same for everything but the 283.)

If you want to be different, why not go totally different like a built Buick, Pontiac or Olds? No that would be different.