Yet more bad economic signs - car sales are...
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 403
From: Wish I knew..
Originally posted by Darth Xed
Your example paints a picture of someone who has other/higher priorities in life than buying a new $33k truck... nothing wrong with that, but life is a series of choices...
I'd like to have a $500k house, and a stable of exotic cars, but they aren't due to me as a birth right.
Your example paints a picture of someone who has other/higher priorities in life than buying a new $33k truck... nothing wrong with that, but life is a series of choices...
I'd like to have a $500k house, and a stable of exotic cars, but they aren't due to me as a birth right.
Last edited by 91Zman; Mar 15, 2003 at 01:47 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 581
From: New York, NY
Originally posted by 91Zman
Oh gee..You have to rely on government statistics instead of finding out first hand what it is like in the real world.While it is nice that personal income is on the rise not everything is so cut and dry as the bs you think is true.Take somebody who only makes 40k for instance.That person wants to buy a new fullsize truck for work but can't because it costs 33k.Sooo,he has to fall back on some used truck that isn't reliable for what he needs it for.Is that fair? He also has other things he's responsible for which makes it impossible:house payments,medical bills,child's schooling/clothes/toys/etc, and unforeseen problems.This all makes it impossible for him to afford the truck.So then he saves up a few years,maybe has gotten a better job,but by then still he can only afford some $hitbox that are now 25k due to a bigger family.needing another family car now and other new responsiblities.So you see all that crap that you posted is just meaningless drivel to all of us who aren't doing so well as those statistics led you to believe.
Oh gee..You have to rely on government statistics instead of finding out first hand what it is like in the real world.While it is nice that personal income is on the rise not everything is so cut and dry as the bs you think is true.Take somebody who only makes 40k for instance.That person wants to buy a new fullsize truck for work but can't because it costs 33k.Sooo,he has to fall back on some used truck that isn't reliable for what he needs it for.Is that fair? He also has other things he's responsible for which makes it impossible:house payments,medical bills,child's schooling/clothes/toys/etc, and unforeseen problems.This all makes it impossible for him to afford the truck.So then he saves up a few years,maybe has gotten a better job,but by then still he can only afford some $hitbox that are now 25k due to a bigger family.needing another family car now and other new responsiblities.So you see all that crap that you posted is just meaningless drivel to all of us who aren't doing so well as those statistics led you to believe.
You have completely danced around everyone's points here. They are saying that ON AVERAGE buying power has increased and costs of car have gone down. Numbers are irrefutable. Statistics don't lie. True there will always be people who can't afford a new truck in that case, but that is not representative of the whole population. You can't justify a set of statistical data with ONE oberservation. On AVERAGE, things are improving within the period of 1991-2003. Look at the whole picture of the entire population instead of one person's case.
Centric is right though. I want to see some figures from the 60's to today.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121
From: South Jersey
Originally posted by guionM
Since you seem to be one of those really dumb & gullable people who actually swallow what any polititian who want's to divert attention away whatever miserible existence his constituents or shortcommings he himself may have, here is a list of actual average wages over the years ending in 2001:
Since you seem to be one of those really dumb & gullable people who actually swallow what any polititian who want's to divert attention away whatever miserible existence his constituents or shortcommings he himself may have, here is a list of actual average wages over the years ending in 2001:
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Originally posted by centric
There's only one big flaw in the data, especially if you take the comparison all the way back to the 60s or 50s: per capita income is rising both due to inflation and due to the rising percentage of two-income households.
To compare a two-income household of today and a single-income household of decades ago gives today's household an unfair advantage in terms of buying power.
There's only one big flaw in the data, especially if you take the comparison all the way back to the 60s or 50s: per capita income is rising both due to inflation and due to the rising percentage of two-income households.
To compare a two-income household of today and a single-income household of decades ago gives today's household an unfair advantage in terms of buying power.
However, if you throw 2 people in the same household working, the total becomes $60,000+ average income for that household. That makes the income per household even greater, doe it not?
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Originally posted by 91Zman
Oh gee..You have to rely on government statistics instead of finding out first hand what it is like in the real world.While it is nice that personal income is on the rise not everything is so cut and dry as the bs you think is true.Take somebody who only makes 40k for instance.That person wants to buy a new fullsize truck for work but can't because it costs 33k.Sooo,he has to fall back on some used truck that isn't reliable for what he needs it for.Is that fair? He also has other things he's responsible for which makes it impossible:house payments,medical bills,child's schooling/clothes/toys/etc, and unforeseen problems.This all makes it impossible for him to afford the truck.So then he saves up a few years,maybe has gotten a better job,but by then still he can only afford some $hitbox that are now 25k due to a bigger family.needing another family car now and other new responsiblities.So you see all that crap that you posted is just meaningless drivel to all of us who aren't doing so well as those statistics led you to believe.
Oh gee..You have to rely on government statistics instead of finding out first hand what it is like in the real world.While it is nice that personal income is on the rise not everything is so cut and dry as the bs you think is true.Take somebody who only makes 40k for instance.That person wants to buy a new fullsize truck for work but can't because it costs 33k.Sooo,he has to fall back on some used truck that isn't reliable for what he needs it for.Is that fair? He also has other things he's responsible for which makes it impossible:house payments,medical bills,child's schooling/clothes/toys/etc, and unforeseen problems.This all makes it impossible for him to afford the truck.So then he saves up a few years,maybe has gotten a better job,but by then still he can only afford some $hitbox that are now 25k due to a bigger family.needing another family car now and other new responsiblities.So you see all that crap that you posted is just meaningless drivel to all of us who aren't doing so well as those statistics led you to believe.
That having been said, since when was a new car a birthright in this country?
If your brother has $25,000 to spend, there is a whole plethera of excellent, high quality NEW cars and trucks that he can buy at that price, let alone some fully loaded pristine used trucks (with a warranty), that are more than reliable. Vehicles tend to last more than 150,000 miles nowadays! Even at $18,000 to $20,000,
Just so you know I'm not just talking out the wrong end on this, Here is 20 pages of trucks in the $15,000 to $18,000 range that are 3 years old or less(!) from out here in California, where we pay the most for vehicles of anywhere in the continential United States:
http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/r...=used&x=45&y=8
A far cry from undependable junkers. To top it all off, if he uses it for work, he gets to write off part of it in taxes!
I'm sorry, buy I don't see any down side in ANY of this beyond wrong conceptions!As your brother ends up better off, he can get a new one if he chooses to. Just for the recorcd, if he's making $40,000 per year, unless he has more children than the Brady Bunch, he can definately afford new IF thats is his priority (6 year financing, leasing, etc...), though IMHO, if he has a big family, it shouldn't be.
There is not one single hardship you mentioned that is unique to your brother or anyone else. We all face it. We all also understand that those things have a higher priority than a brand new car. Some people can afford to pay cash for a new car, some people have to finance, some have to go a year or so used. It's always been that way.
That's Life!
Last edited by guionM; Mar 15, 2003 at 06:20 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 403
From: Wish I knew..
I'm not tryin to be an a$$ so bear with me.
.First of all, these aren't simply "statistics', it is actual fact. If my father bought a new car in 1979, and I can't afford one in 2003, that doesn't mean that personal income hasn't risen in 24 years. It means that when I measure my priorities or financial abilities with my father from that time period, I'm the one that's lacking, OR I have different priorities or responsibilities than he had. Nothing more. It would be pretty silly for me to say the rest of the country also must be worse off if it really isn't. Gee,some are more fortunate than others?Also I didn't mean that all low income people.Not a damn thing that you said here is what I meant in my earlier post.
That having been said, since when was a new car a birthright in this country?
Never did said that it was a ***in birth right that every non well to do has to have a new car.Not looking for handouts so stop putting words in my mouth mmmk.Some people would like a new car but can't afford to do so.Is it terribly wrong for someone to complain about car prices? I should hope not.
If your brother has $25,000 to spend, there is a whole plethera of excellent, high quality NEW cars and trucks that he can buy at that price, let alone some fully loaded pristine used trucks (with a warranty), that are more than reliable. Vehicles tend to last more than 150,000 miles nowadays! Even at $18,000 to $20,000, So the hell what?He wants new and not used.$20k fullsize pickups?Well I'll be a monkey's uncle.If my brother had or could save that much would have I even brought up my brother and his situation?No. Do you know my brother's situation? No. So why be bringing up these senarios cause it sounds to me that your not trying to be the least bit civil to me and doesn't do him any good but thanks anyway for the insight.I'm trying to be civil towards you but it's kinda hard after all that grade school name caling you threw my way.Sorry for the democat thing btw.
.Just so you know I'm not just talking out the wrong end on this, Here is 20 pages of trucks in the $15,000 to $18,000 range that are 3 years old or less(!) from out here in California, where we pay the most for vehicles of anywhere in the continential United States: Reliable or whatever,again I said he wants new.
As your brother ends up better off, he can get a new one if he chooses to. Just for the recorcd, if he's making $40,000 per year, unless he has more children than the Brady Bunch, he can definately afford new IF thats is his priority (6 year financing, leasing, etc...), though IMHO, if he has a big family, it shouldn't be I should hope so that he sould be able to but with car prices rising every year he'll probably be in te same situation or whatever.Who knows will happen then.Yet again I said that he doesn't want any car notes on his hands while he pays the house notes and other bills and such.Again do you know about his situation financial,medical or otherwise? No.BTW,he has 3 young kids,2 dogs, plus a wife to support.
To top it all off, if he uses it for work, he gets to write off part of it in taxes! Thanks for the tip,I'll tell him about it.
I'm sorry, buy I don't see any down side in ANY of this beyond wrong conceptions!I'm sorry that you can't see it from my point of view.I'm glad that you have been so fortunate.
There is not one single hardship you mentioned that is unique to your brother or anyone else. We all face it. We all also understand that those things have a higher priority than a brand new car. Some people can afford to pay cash for a new car, some people have to finance, some have to go a year or so used. It's always been that way. Was I talking about everybody's problems being the same or any different than my brothers,no..but if you saw it that way,sorry.I was just using his situation as an example.Some people have to finance but does it help somebody who's trying to save up while doing so,given my brother's situation?No,probably not.
So in short,I'm sorry if I came off all wrong to what you were saying but I'm just explaining my brother's situation,nothing more nothing less.I apologize for the democrat remark to since it probably offended you and R377. Maybe I did misinterpreted the link he posted and again I apologize. No hard feelings ok.
That having been said, since when was a new car a birthright in this country?
Never did said that it was a ***in birth right that every non well to do has to have a new car.Not looking for handouts so stop putting words in my mouth mmmk.Some people would like a new car but can't afford to do so.Is it terribly wrong for someone to complain about car prices? I should hope not.
If your brother has $25,000 to spend, there is a whole plethera of excellent, high quality NEW cars and trucks that he can buy at that price, let alone some fully loaded pristine used trucks (with a warranty), that are more than reliable. Vehicles tend to last more than 150,000 miles nowadays! Even at $18,000 to $20,000, So the hell what?He wants new and not used.$20k fullsize pickups?Well I'll be a monkey's uncle.If my brother had or could save that much would have I even brought up my brother and his situation?No. Do you know my brother's situation? No. So why be bringing up these senarios cause it sounds to me that your not trying to be the least bit civil to me and doesn't do him any good but thanks anyway for the insight.I'm trying to be civil towards you but it's kinda hard after all that grade school name caling you threw my way.Sorry for the democat thing btw.
.Just so you know I'm not just talking out the wrong end on this, Here is 20 pages of trucks in the $15,000 to $18,000 range that are 3 years old or less(!) from out here in California, where we pay the most for vehicles of anywhere in the continential United States: Reliable or whatever,again I said he wants new.
As your brother ends up better off, he can get a new one if he chooses to. Just for the recorcd, if he's making $40,000 per year, unless he has more children than the Brady Bunch, he can definately afford new IF thats is his priority (6 year financing, leasing, etc...), though IMHO, if he has a big family, it shouldn't be I should hope so that he sould be able to but with car prices rising every year he'll probably be in te same situation or whatever.Who knows will happen then.Yet again I said that he doesn't want any car notes on his hands while he pays the house notes and other bills and such.Again do you know about his situation financial,medical or otherwise? No.BTW,he has 3 young kids,2 dogs, plus a wife
to support.To top it all off, if he uses it for work, he gets to write off part of it in taxes! Thanks for the tip,I'll tell him about it.
I'm sorry, buy I don't see any down side in ANY of this beyond wrong conceptions!I'm sorry that you can't see it from my point of view.I'm glad that you have been so fortunate.
There is not one single hardship you mentioned that is unique to your brother or anyone else. We all face it. We all also understand that those things have a higher priority than a brand new car. Some people can afford to pay cash for a new car, some people have to finance, some have to go a year or so used. It's always been that way. Was I talking about everybody's problems being the same or any different than my brothers,no..but if you saw it that way,sorry.I was just using his situation as an example.Some people have to finance but does it help somebody who's trying to save up while doing so,given my brother's situation?No,probably not.
So in short,I'm sorry if I came off all wrong to what you were saying but I'm just explaining my brother's situation,nothing more nothing less.I apologize for the democrat remark to since it probably offended you and R377. Maybe I did misinterpreted the link he posted and again I apologize. No hard feelings ok.
Last edited by 91Zman; Mar 15, 2003 at 09:22 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
I think I am missing something 91zman...
You would agree that everyone makes their own life choices, sets their own priorites, and deals with the same vehicle pricing, right?
I don't see what the issue is then.
If your brother wants a new truck, and it has to be a new, 33k truck, perhaps he needs to take a look at his priorities and choices, and adjust to allow for the truck, or just move on... I don't see what the gripe is.
You would agree that everyone makes their own life choices, sets their own priorites, and deals with the same vehicle pricing, right?
I don't see what the issue is then.
If your brother wants a new truck, and it has to be a new, 33k truck, perhaps he needs to take a look at his priorities and choices, and adjust to allow for the truck, or just move on... I don't see what the gripe is.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 403
From: Wish I knew..
Originally posted by Darth Xed
I think I am missing something 91zman...
You would agree that everyone makes their own life choices, sets their own priorites, and deals with the same vehicle pricing, right?
I don't see what the issue is then.
If your brother wants a new truck, and it has to be a new, 33k truck, perhaps he needs to take a look at his priorities and choices, and adjust to allow for the truck, or just move on... I don't see what the gripe is.
I think I am missing something 91zman...
You would agree that everyone makes their own life choices, sets their own priorites, and deals with the same vehicle pricing, right?
I don't see what the issue is then.
If your brother wants a new truck, and it has to be a new, 33k truck, perhaps he needs to take a look at his priorities and choices, and adjust to allow for the truck, or just move on... I don't see what the gripe is.
Last edited by 91Zman; Mar 16, 2003 at 05:06 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,022
From: Newhall, CA USA
Sorry, GuionM:
Yes, it per per PERSON income. Back in the 50s and 60s (and, arguably, much of the 70s), when only one person per household was working, the income was averaged over two adults in the household. This makes per capita income appear much less than if two people are working and the income is not being averaged.
For example, $50k/year salary in 2-person, one-worker household = $25k per capita, while $30k and $40k incomes in a 2-person, 2-worker household = $35k per capita.
Looking at that, it seems like, "Wow! We've made wonderful progress because per capita income is up $10k!" When in reality, both people have to work--each for less total income.
And don't even get me started on the tax load of the average middle-class family then and now, especially when things like sales taxes are included.
Not a flame--just something to think about.
Mark Twain: "Lies, damn lies, and statistics!"
Yes, it per per PERSON income. Back in the 50s and 60s (and, arguably, much of the 70s), when only one person per household was working, the income was averaged over two adults in the household. This makes per capita income appear much less than if two people are working and the income is not being averaged.
For example, $50k/year salary in 2-person, one-worker household = $25k per capita, while $30k and $40k incomes in a 2-person, 2-worker household = $35k per capita.
Looking at that, it seems like, "Wow! We've made wonderful progress because per capita income is up $10k!" When in reality, both people have to work--each for less total income.
And don't even get me started on the tax load of the average middle-class family then and now, especially when things like sales taxes are included.
Not a flame--just something to think about.
Mark Twain: "Lies, damn lies, and statistics!"
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Re: I'm not tryin to be an a$$ so bear with me.
Originally posted by 91Zman
.First of all, these aren't simply "statistics', it is actual fact. If my father bought a new car in 1979, and I can't afford one in 2003, that doesn't mean that personal income hasn't risen in 24 years. It means that when I measure my priorities or financial abilities with my father from that time period, I'm the one that's lacking, OR I have different priorities or responsibilities than he had. Nothing more. It would be pretty silly for me to say the rest of the country also must be worse off if it really isn't. Gee,some are more fortunate than others?Also I didn't mean that all low income people.Not a damn thing that you said here is what I meant in my earlier post.
That having been said, since when was a new car a birthright in this country?
Never did said that it was a ***in birth right that every non well to do has to have a new car.Not looking for handouts so stop putting words in my mouth mmmk.Some people would like a new car but can't afford to do so.Is it terribly wrong for someone to complain about car prices? I should hope not.
If your brother has $25,000 to spend, there is a whole plethera of excellent, high quality NEW cars and trucks that he can buy at that price, let alone some fully loaded pristine used trucks (with a warranty), that are more than reliable. Vehicles tend to last more than 150,000 miles nowadays! Even at $18,000 to $20,000, So the hell what?He wants new and not used.$20k fullsize pickups?Well I'll be a monkey's uncle.If my brother had or could save that much would have I even brought up my brother and his situation?No. Do you know my brother's situation? No. So why be bringing up these senarios cause it sounds to me that your not trying to be the least bit civil to me and doesn't do him any good but thanks anyway for the insight.I'm trying to be civil towards you but it's kinda hard after all that grade school name caling you threw my way.Sorry for the democat thing btw.
.Just so you know I'm not just talking out the wrong end on this, Here is 20 pages of trucks in the $15,000 to $18,000 range that are 3 years old or less(!) from out here in California, where we pay the most for vehicles of anywhere in the continential United States: Reliable or whatever,again I said he wants new.
As your brother ends up better off, he can get a new one if he chooses to. Just for the recorcd, if he's making $40,000 per year, unless he has more children than the Brady Bunch, he can definately afford new IF thats is his priority (6 year financing, leasing, etc...), though IMHO, if he has a big family, it shouldn't be I should hope so that he sould be able to but with car prices rising every year he'll probably be in te same situation or whatever.Who knows will happen then.Yet again I said that he doesn't want any car notes on his hands while he pays the house notes and other bills and such.Again do you know about his situation financial,medical or otherwise? No.BTW,he has 3 young kids,2 dogs, plus a wife to support.
To top it all off, if he uses it for work, he gets to write off part of it in taxes! Thanks for the tip,I'll tell him about it.
I'm sorry, buy I don't see any down side in ANY of this beyond wrong conceptions!I'm sorry that you can't see it from my point of view.I'm glad that you have been so fortunate.
There is not one single hardship you mentioned that is unique to your brother or anyone else. We all face it. We all also understand that those things have a higher priority than a brand new car. Some people can afford to pay cash for a new car, some people have to finance, some have to go a year or so used. It's always been that way. Was I talking about everybody's problems being the same or any different than my brothers,no..but if you saw it that way,sorry.I was just using his situation as an example.Some people have to finance but does it help somebody who's trying to save up while doing so,given my brother's situation?No,probably not.
So in short,I'm sorry if I came off all wrong to what you were saying but I'm just explaining my brother's situation,nothing more nothing less.I apologize for the democrat remark to since it probably offended you and R377. Maybe I did misinterpreted the link he posted and again I apologize. No hard feelings ok.
.First of all, these aren't simply "statistics', it is actual fact. If my father bought a new car in 1979, and I can't afford one in 2003, that doesn't mean that personal income hasn't risen in 24 years. It means that when I measure my priorities or financial abilities with my father from that time period, I'm the one that's lacking, OR I have different priorities or responsibilities than he had. Nothing more. It would be pretty silly for me to say the rest of the country also must be worse off if it really isn't. Gee,some are more fortunate than others?Also I didn't mean that all low income people.Not a damn thing that you said here is what I meant in my earlier post.
That having been said, since when was a new car a birthright in this country?
Never did said that it was a ***in birth right that every non well to do has to have a new car.Not looking for handouts so stop putting words in my mouth mmmk.Some people would like a new car but can't afford to do so.Is it terribly wrong for someone to complain about car prices? I should hope not.
If your brother has $25,000 to spend, there is a whole plethera of excellent, high quality NEW cars and trucks that he can buy at that price, let alone some fully loaded pristine used trucks (with a warranty), that are more than reliable. Vehicles tend to last more than 150,000 miles nowadays! Even at $18,000 to $20,000, So the hell what?He wants new and not used.$20k fullsize pickups?Well I'll be a monkey's uncle.If my brother had or could save that much would have I even brought up my brother and his situation?No. Do you know my brother's situation? No. So why be bringing up these senarios cause it sounds to me that your not trying to be the least bit civil to me and doesn't do him any good but thanks anyway for the insight.I'm trying to be civil towards you but it's kinda hard after all that grade school name caling you threw my way.Sorry for the democat thing btw.
.Just so you know I'm not just talking out the wrong end on this, Here is 20 pages of trucks in the $15,000 to $18,000 range that are 3 years old or less(!) from out here in California, where we pay the most for vehicles of anywhere in the continential United States: Reliable or whatever,again I said he wants new.
As your brother ends up better off, he can get a new one if he chooses to. Just for the recorcd, if he's making $40,000 per year, unless he has more children than the Brady Bunch, he can definately afford new IF thats is his priority (6 year financing, leasing, etc...), though IMHO, if he has a big family, it shouldn't be I should hope so that he sould be able to but with car prices rising every year he'll probably be in te same situation or whatever.Who knows will happen then.Yet again I said that he doesn't want any car notes on his hands while he pays the house notes and other bills and such.Again do you know about his situation financial,medical or otherwise? No.BTW,he has 3 young kids,2 dogs, plus a wife
to support.To top it all off, if he uses it for work, he gets to write off part of it in taxes! Thanks for the tip,I'll tell him about it.
I'm sorry, buy I don't see any down side in ANY of this beyond wrong conceptions!I'm sorry that you can't see it from my point of view.I'm glad that you have been so fortunate.
There is not one single hardship you mentioned that is unique to your brother or anyone else. We all face it. We all also understand that those things have a higher priority than a brand new car. Some people can afford to pay cash for a new car, some people have to finance, some have to go a year or so used. It's always been that way. Was I talking about everybody's problems being the same or any different than my brothers,no..but if you saw it that way,sorry.I was just using his situation as an example.Some people have to finance but does it help somebody who's trying to save up while doing so,given my brother's situation?No,probably not.
So in short,I'm sorry if I came off all wrong to what you were saying but I'm just explaining my brother's situation,nothing more nothing less.I apologize for the democrat remark to since it probably offended you and R377. Maybe I did misinterpreted the link he posted and again I apologize. No hard feelings ok.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Originally posted by centric
Sorry, GuionM:
Yes, it per per PERSON income. Back in the 50s and 60s (and, arguably, much of the 70s), when only one person per household was working, the income was averaged over two adults in the household. This makes per capita income appear much less than if two people are working and the income is not being averaged.
For example, $50k/year salary in 2-person, one-worker household = $25k per capita, while $30k and $40k incomes in a 2-person, 2-worker household = $35k per capita.
Looking at that, it seems like, "Wow! We've made wonderful progress because per capita income is up $10k!" When in reality, both people have to work--each for less total income.
And don't even get me started on the tax load of the average middle-class family then and now, especially when things like sales taxes are included.
Not a flame--just something to think about.
Mark Twain: "Lies, damn lies, and statistics!"
Sorry, GuionM:
Yes, it per per PERSON income. Back in the 50s and 60s (and, arguably, much of the 70s), when only one person per household was working, the income was averaged over two adults in the household. This makes per capita income appear much less than if two people are working and the income is not being averaged.
For example, $50k/year salary in 2-person, one-worker household = $25k per capita, while $30k and $40k incomes in a 2-person, 2-worker household = $35k per capita.
Looking at that, it seems like, "Wow! We've made wonderful progress because per capita income is up $10k!" When in reality, both people have to work--each for less total income.
And don't even get me started on the tax load of the average middle-class family then and now, especially when things like sales taxes are included.
Not a flame--just something to think about.
Mark Twain: "Lies, damn lies, and statistics!"
I just got off surfing the web the past 45 minutes (slow day at work) looking for evidence of what you said about those early wages being averaged over 2 people vs one person today, and I found none. Infact, one site that pretty much echoed nearly the exact same figures actually said "per person income", not "per household income".
So at the moment, until you point me to another site that says otherwise (I can't, gotta get back to work), I'll stand by my point.
I'm open enough to go with your point if you come up with something proving it, but it's just that from what I've read so far my figures are based on an individual's income, not a household's.
From the SSA: "We use the series to index the earnings of individuals...
Last edited by guionM; Mar 17, 2003 at 11:44 AM.