ProudPony

in the sh1++er!

Hold on fellas, it's gonna be a loooong year.

LINK .

Don't see incentives curing this ill.
And it's everybody, not just GM or Ford.

3 - years and counting now...

91Zman

Why be surprised? Is it the economy or the rapidly increasing prices of cars today,overpriced I'd say.It's probably why a lot more people are leasing than buying.

ProudPony

I can't disagree with "overpriced" at all.

I can recall when we bought our '88 Ranger used in '92. There was a teal '92 LX 5.0 M5 sedan on 5-spoke Pony alloys in the showroom right in front of the cubicle we were signing papers in. It was stickered at $11,200. And here I was paying $7500 for a 32k mile 4x4 X-cab Ranger. I thought several times that I could talk them down to $10k or less on that car EASY. Drove home in the Ranger. Now the base V8 (a GT model) is well into the $20k's - DOUBLE what they were 10 years ago.

Like guionM was pointing out in another thread, I'm not griping about the price of the new car in itself or a lack of value therein, I'm just griping about how quickly the change has come about and why.

As far as these prices going up, look at pension issues, benefit costs, worker's comp, unemployment payments, etc. - NONE of which adds direct value to the car itself. But the car price must carry the cost those benefits for the employees - it's the source of income for the company.

I intentionally straddle the fence on the union issue, but in this case, one could argue that they have somewhat priced themselves right out of their jobs. I heard that an average Ford lineworker's total hourly rate was like $64/hr after all expenses including salary, health, company match 401K, unemployment, etc.! If that's true, no wonder Ford and GM are having money problems due to pension/retirement/benefit plans!

guess who

Ford spoke of cutting production back when they announced the "plan" to get back on track,It was a matter of time.

R377

Average retail automobile transaction prices have been going down for at least two or three now. And in relation to household income, cars are more affordable now than they have been in decades.

centric

R377:

Not a flame, but where are you getting your data? It certainly doesn't FEEL less expensive.

91Zman

Sorry dude but bs.

R377

Thank you for your considered opinion .

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/business/5119217.htm

91Zman

If you believe what that article tells you then you must be a democrat,you'll believe in anything.

R377

By all means, feel free to back up your assertion with some proof. Or is it easier just to be ignorant and flame away?

Perhaps you didn't read the article carefully enough, but It's not like these data were compiled by some hick working out of his parents' basement. It is Comerica bank doing the analysis ( here's a direct link to the information on their own site).

guionM

Since you seem to be one of those really dumb & gullable people who actually swallow what any polititian who want's to divert attention away whatever miserible existence his constituents or shortcommings he himself may have, here is a list of actual average wages over the years ending in 2001:

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html

As you see, you average pay has almost TRIPLED since 1979, and DOUBLED since 1985.

This is the average prices of new cars ending in 2001 (I'm using domestics in my example):

http://www.ott.doe.gov/facts/archives/fotw219supp.shtml

When you take the average car price in 1979 ($6889) and triple it as well (to get the 2001 price), you get a price of $20,667. Yet the average price of a new car for 2001 is $19,600!

From 1991-2001, the average income rose from $21,800 to $32,900 (roughly 1/3), while average car prices rose from $15,200 to $19,600 (LESS than 1/3) during that same time.

In short, R377 knows what he is talking about, and you unfortunately do not. Cars prices have come down slightly over the years.

As you will read (if you know how to) these figures come from the U.S. Department of Commerence, AND the U.S. Social Security Administration.. Both of which (last I checked) were run by Republicans.

Next time, my advice is to think (on your own) before you flame or label someone simply because it doesn't jive with what you wrongly think is true.

guionM

While we're on the subject (yes I know this won't have anything to do with 5th gen or new cars), if anyone want's to see how we are faring at work today (or rather 1997...year of it's latest figures ) vs previous years if you factor out inflation, here's a good site to check out:

http://www.epinet.org/datazone/downloadlist.html

Has pretty much every catagory you may think of (realistically).

91Zman

Oh gee..You have to rely on government statistics instead of finding out first hand what it is like in the real world.While it is nice that personal income is on the rise not everything is so cut and dry as the bs you think is true.Take somebody who only makes 40k for instance.That person wants to buy a new fullsize truck for work but can't because it costs 33k.Sooo,he has to fall back on some used truck that isn't reliable for what he needs it for.Is that fair? He also has other things he's responsible for which makes it impossible:house payments,medical bills,child's schooling/clothes/toys/etc, and unforeseen problems.This all makes it impossible for him to afford the truck.So then he saves up a few years,maybe has gotten a better job,but by then still he can only afford some $hitbox that are now 25k due to a bigger family.needing another family car now and other new responsiblities.So you see all that crap that you posted is just meaningless drivel to all of us who aren't doing so well as those statistics led you to believe.

centric

There's only one big flaw in the data, especially if you take the comparison all the way back to the 60s or 50s: per capita income is rising both due to inflation and due to the rising percentage of two-income households.

To compare a two-income household of today and a single-income household of decades ago gives today's household an unfair advantage in terms of buying power.

Darth Xed

Your example paints a picture of someone who has other/higher priorities in life than buying a new $33k truck... nothing wrong with that, but life is a series of choices...

I'd like to have a $500k house, and a stable of exotic cars, but they aren't due to me as a birth right.