Wanted to get everyones take on this and open up a debate thread. Even though they have gone as far as to announce that they screwed up and want to make amends, will this save them? Every time I read a thread on this board its got something bad about GM in it. And we're on their side!!! So what do yall have to say? Will people shopping for a new vehicle in the future actually think of GM first instead of an import or will they suffer a long slow death as their loyal customers fade away over time??

 

GM as a whole, thanks in part to Lutz, is making a serious turn around. Think about it. Though this message board tends to make it seem as if GM, as well as all other domestic brands, will go belly up tommarow. But look at how GM is positioning themselves for their future. Chevrolet is getting much higher quality vehicles than before (Impala, Cobalt, Malibu). Cadillac is going through a trasformation of all models to become the premier brand of the world. Pontiac is becoming the performance division again (GTO, GXP Bonnie, GTP Comp G). Buick is getting some more new products to take Caddy's old place in the market. GMC and Saturn are becoming more diverse in their products. And Hummer is paving new ground for image machines. I will say that GM is in a little bit of a rut, but the more we can show people that GM is as good if not better then the competition, and overcome the import mentality that imports are better (which is only a myth in the modern era) , GM will be around for a good long and prosperous future. Long live the USA

 

Well said.

Especially the Cadillac part!

I think this board, rightfully so in some regards, has a doom and gloom look because our favorite cars, Camaro and Firebird, have been a casualty of the old regime... hopefully the new folsk will do their best to right this wrong in a realistic time frame.

 

I think people here seem to be very critical of GM because they actually care about GM's future and the image it will portray. Not only that, but the very future of the cars we adore (Camaro and Firebird) are now, more closely than ever, tied to that future.

Besides, who wouldn't want to play CEO for a while and say what they think ought to be done?

 

GM's got problems that product can't fix (pension concerns, labor and health-care costs, etc.), but getting decent product on the market is still a hell of a good way to start turning things around.

On the product side, I think they still need to bring a truely world-class compact to the market, and I'd really like to see some affordable RWD performance. Cadillac is certainly doing a lot to restore my faith in GM's ability to turn out world-class cars; I'd just like to see conclusive proof that the other divisions can do the same.

 

GM needs to be saved? from what? owning most of the market share?

 

GM's products' quality perception is pretty low... They know this and are trying to work at it.

Other brands, epseically imports, are stealing more and more market share from GM every day..

Toyota's actually made more money than Ford and GM combined last year..

 

Speaking soley as an observant enthusiast (not an expert), I think the answer to your question is, Toyota! That's who is likely to walk away with more and more market share taking it away from GM, Ford and the rest. Toyota is the high profit model at the moment. For GM to stay ahead, they need to find a few products that will sell hundreds of thousands of copies a year. Unfortunately for us, that's not a pony car!

Will Bob Lutz save them? I don't know. But, there's no doubt he's already nudged that huge ship in a better direction than anyone else at GM has in the last 25 years. Who knows how long he'll continue working but I'm hoping that he will find his own replacement and will make sure he's a car guy too.

 

I agree.

The current Cavalier is ugly (I like the Sunfire), and both of the J-bodies are getting walked on by the Japanese FWD compacts. The Ford Focus is kicking its *** as well.

 

With the exception of the rebate bonanza of the last 2 years, GM has lost market share every year for over 20 years.

I'd like to be optimistic, but it still seems like for every step forward, they take at least one backwards.

For every new world beating product (CTS, C5, GTO) there is a newer model that is at best average (Ion, Malibu, Silverado SS, Monte Carlo, AZTEK).

Can Lutz save GM? I don't know. It's definately better than it was w/o him, but we've still got no Camaro, no well built sport compact, virtually no affordable performance, pricey SS models with no manual transmission and lots of cars with dull styling and a garish chrome bar slapped on the front.

I mean, GM put out some real crap in the 80's but at least the Monte Carlos, Camaros, Cutlasses, GNs, Fieros, etc. were great looking cars for the time. I still have yet to see a new GM car with an appearance that makes me excited.

 

That's an incredibly short-sighted and simplistic view. As noted above, GM's done nothing but lose market share for the last couple of decades, and in the first quarter of this year Toyota was within 250,000 vehicles of surpassing GM's worldwide market share (they've already overtaken Ford for the #2 spot). Not to mention profitability, quality, reliability, reputation, consumer enthusiasm, etc.

 

ok so GM has lost market share in the past while but they are still the biggest automaker in the world and i don't think they will be going bakrupt any time soon
saying GM needs to be "saved" from some untimely fate is a huge exaggeration

and IMHO i don't think GM will ever be saved, per se
it's too big of a company, and the decisions made are almost algorithmic in the sense that they exclusively concern the bottom line
this is why the camaro was killed off... it didn't make any profit
similarly, why redesign a better j-body when you can just throw in some incentives and continue to make money off an inferior product?
bob lutz may sway the company in the right direction, but i don't forsee it becoming as "good" as it was some 30 years ago because it is run by buisinessmen, not car enthusiasts

 

Originally posted by l_bilyk
ok so GM has lost market share in the past while but they are still the biggest automaker in the world and i don't think they will be going bakrupt any time soon

saying GM needs to be "saved" from some untimely fate is a huge exaggeration

You clearly don't understand their pension situation. They could very well go bankrupt if they make a few too many miscalculated moves.

and IMHO i don't think GM will ever be saved, per se
it's too big of a company, and the decisions made are almost algorithmic in the sense that they exclusively concern the bottom line
this is why the camaro was killed off... it didn't make any profit

Toyota is also a big company and they are quite successful. BTW, from what I have read, the F-body MADE MONEY for GM.

similarly, why redesign a better j-body when you can just throw in some incentives and continue to make money off an inferior product?

At one time, they lost $2,000 on every J-body they sold. I'm sure it's higher now with the $4,000 rebate.

bob lutz may sway the company in the right direction, but i don't forsee it becoming as "good" as it was some 30 years ago because it is run by buisinessmen, not car enthusiasts

And therein lies the problem...

 

Look at the number of new products to be released between 2002 and 2006. Its basically everything GM makes. Poncho, Chevy, and Caddy are totally redesigned in that time. If this wont turn GM around, nothing will.

 

That's very true.. something not to be taken for granted.. I read in a magazine about a year ago that GM's present and near-future retirees and the associated pension plans that go w/ them are a HUGE liability for GM, big enough to topple the company if they lost too much more ground in revenue

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