'13 years' has nothing to do with the comparison. I whipped out the Omega/Catera because it justified my point. You can't take the same basic shape and make it A LOT more appealing by bolting on a grille and different tail lights. If that were the case, I'd think we would've seen a lot more G5, G3, Terraza, Montana, Relay et. al. sales over the past 15 years.

I said the G8 was "the most attractive". I never said it was "a looker"

Besides. I've SEEN the car. The G8 IS the Commodore with different bumper covers after all.

Sure... It oozes class... The way a 1996 Audi oozes class.

LMFAO... Just WOW.

Not only are you condescending (which is what pissed me off to begin with) Now you're just being crazy. I've ALWAYS advocated Holden and it's products (Check my posts here, at C&G or GMI from the last 10 years if you don't believe me) My beef is that GM has now been outclassed. These Holdens might've been 'cutting edge' when they came to market, but times have changed. (And honestly the Holdens, especially the HSVs have been getting worse with each MCE)

LOL, I still can't believe you have the nerve to say that. Couldn't be much of a F5 fan if I had a grudge against Oz... Why the heck would I even be here?

My opinion isn't the same as yours and I'm somehow narrow minded now? At least I don't flip flop on my views every 2 months (See our history of posting in the Pontiac threads together)

I'll lay MONEY on the fact that the average consumer would pass a Caprice up without even a second look and that the same average consumer would not only stop and LOOK at the new Charger, but also KNOW WHAT IT IS.

(And then my point is proven)

 

If I'm not mistaken, sales didn't really take off until those rebates were available.

The original GTO could be used as a family man's car, but with a hot rod powertrain and cool trim. The '04-'06 couldn't be described as such. In fact, some elements of it had kind of a cottage industry flavor. Eg., the box in the trunk fuel tank, the need to wait for the front seats to power forward in order to get in back, the HUGE rear seat area, but with only two set belts instead of three - stuff like that. I loved the GTO's combination of V8 power, manual trans, RWD and nice interior, but the previously mentioned points really killed it for me.

 

Maybe so and I'm not arguing that per se, but G8 was not the only car with rebates on the hood, most models, from most everyone had some hefty rebates on them. All I'm saying is that G8 sales moved in the opposite direction to most GM nameplates at that time. If anything the rebates had a positive effect on the car's sales whereas it didn't stop sales from haemorrhaging for other models.

All valid points for sure and at least you can argue them without just dismissing the car as a restyled Cavalier or downplaying it as not a true GTO as others have. No car is perfect.

Now that you mention it I do recall some comments regarding the slow sliding front seats. The 2+2 isn't a huge deal for me, but the trunk would be for sure, as I mentioned. I still haven't had the opportunity to assess one firsthand.

 

The other thing I loved about the GTO were it's really neat color combos. Far more interesting color pallet than what you'd expect from GM. Actually, if the GTO had a third seatbelt in back, I would have overlooked the rest, and just bought one.

 

Unfortunately the G8 stepped back from that. Too bad, the only interior accent colour was red and it was restricted to the centre panels on the seats. The GTO was much more interesting in their application of the blue and red accents to the doors and dash. I personally really liked the red, and almost all the GTOs I've looked at (albeit online) had the red interior, although I have looked at some with the blue. If I did ever get one, it most certainly wouldn't be one with just the ebony interior.

 

Problem with the GTO was the Boot or Trunk as you guys call it was destroyed in regulating it for the US.

The original Monaro had ample room back there.

 

I bought my G8 a couple of months after Pontiac's death notice -- end of June, 2009. Discounts for the G8 began several months after the release, and came a few months after $4.00 per gallon gasoline, and were not as big as those on the big SUVs at the time. Once GM admitted they needed government help, discounts got bigger. I don't think that's a reflection on the car, but rather a reflection on the times (will I still have a job? are we entering a depression? will I be able to get parts for the car? what happens to the warranty if GM goes bankrupt? etc.)

When I bought my car, I got a good price, but if you take off the GM card rebate, it was not as good a deal as could be had on the Dodge Charger, or several other cars at that time.

Discounts are readily available on just about all cars, save very hot models. I don't think they indicate a failure, unless they are larger than for competitive models. Even then, they could be baked into the MSRP.

The 2004-2006 GTO was a neat car. However, I believe the tiny trunk would have limited its appeal to those looking for a real world, daily driver vehicle. To me, the G8 has all of the appeal of the GTO, while adding plenty of room for cargo and back seat passengers. Bring out a Holden Commodore now, under Chevy, with a better (but clearly still not great) economy, making sure that it has Navigation optional, and I think it should do well, though lower volumes than Malibu, of course.

 

The poll does not have a entry that reflects my opinion.

I believe the car would neither sell like hotcakes nor be a slow seller. It would bring incremental volume to GM that will otherwise go to the Dodge Charger, Hyundai Genesis or one of the premium brands, such as 3 year-old BMW 550i.

 

Personally, I think the G8 would have made a better modern GTO that the Monaro. Yes, some will say too many doors, but I think it fits the niche better. The only thing missing is a stick for the 6.0 and the GTO's color combos.

 

I actually agree that they could have made a good GTO out of the G8... They definitely would have had to made the GTO available with the manual. The question is, would it have all been the GTO and no G8, or would it have been an upgrade to the G8... and if the latter, would GTO have just been the GXP?

I think the best case would have been for the G8 to be the base line of the car with a normal hood. G8 GT could get the 6.0 and automatic. The GTO would have had to been an LS3 if it had the manual though, since the AFM in the 6.0L wasn't compatible with the manual transmission... that or use a non AFM variant of the 6.0L.

 

After the VZ cars went away and the sedan only VE platform came out I'm not sure I would have wanted a follow-on car to be called GTO. Yeah it may have fit the mold and there are compelling arguments here for it, but I dunno. GTO was a lot of things, but it was always a two door car. I know Pontiac did it with Grand Prix and Dodge did it with the Charger, but still...

Right or wrong, IMO, the Monaro coupe was more of a "real" GTO than the sedan would have been. However, if GTO was a performance trim option (instead of GXP) like it was originally - G8 GTO - maybe, just maybe that would have been OK, but GTO as a stand-alone name, no.

In any event, regarding the G8, I think the manual should have been available in more than just the GXP variant on this side of the ocean - it wouldn't have cost any more since the manual is/was available in Australia in less than top-of-the-line trim levels.

 

EPA certification would have been expensive. To avoid gas guzzler, it would have needed the skip shift, which would have reduced appeal. In all likelihood, it would have been a money loser.

 

I guess for me, what it comes down to is this: if they offer the SWB version ***WITH A STICK***, I'd be very interested. If not.........

 

Why do the cops want the LWB version anyway? Wouldn't the standard Cop car package Holden do be a better fit?

 

If it looks like the police version, it will sell sparingly to old people being pushed out of Buicks and Crown Vics. If I were GM, I would make the consumber version a GXP like loaded out, aggressivly styled, sporty sedan, and charge a premium for it. That will keep volume low and margins high.