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Will the Camaro be a pig?

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Old Feb 28, 2006 | 07:06 AM
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Will the Camaro be a pig?

Considering Holden is helping develop GM NA RWD program this just confirms for me why the new Camaro will be no lightweight at all.

VE Commodore Packs On The Kilos

Toby Hagon
28 February 2006
www.smh.com.au

Holden's all-new VE Commodore will be up to 10 per cent heavier than the model it replaces courtesy of a larger body and added safety features.

Due in August, the VE is expected to be around 150 kilograms heavier than the VZ it will replace, which is the last of the VT-based models that first arrived in 1997.

But General Motors product development chief Bob Lutz says the Commodore's anticipated near-two-tonne body is in line with weight gains on many new models as car makers engineer added safety into their vehicles in response to stricter regulations.

"Everything is getting heavier … everybody's replacement vehicle will be bigger," says Lutz, explaining that new regulations concerning rollover protection, side impact protection and pedestrian protection have led to increased bulk in new-generation vehicles. "Everything (new model) is growing to meet these new (safety) requirements."


All things being equal, added weight means increased fuel consumption, something Holden could do without as it watches sales of its volume-selling large cars plummet.

Industry pundits are crediting rising fuel prices with the slump in large car sales; in 2005 the Commodore recorded its lowest sales in 12 years.

Holden is refusing to comment on details of the upcoming VE through fear of affecting the sales of the soon-to-be-run-out VZ.

However, logic suggests the extra 150-odd-kilograms of weight will result in increased fuel consumption for the VE.

But other factors also come into play with fuel consumption. Holden is also expected to add a five- and/or six-speed automatic transmission in an effort to improve the appeal of its biggest seller to fleets and family buyers increasingly concerned about running costs.

While the V6-powered VE Commodores that account for the majority of sales will benefit from incremental improvements, the basics of the 3.6-litre engine are expected to remain the same.

However, Holden is believed to be adding cylinder-deactivation technology to its recently-acquired 6.0-litre V8, meaning it can run as a four-cylinder when minimal power is required.
Old Feb 28, 2006 | 07:42 AM
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Re: Will the Camaro be a pig?

Nope. I think the only thing that Camaro shares with VE will be the suspensions. I belive the body structure is Sigma based.
Old Feb 28, 2006 | 07:55 AM
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Re: Will the Camaro be a pig?

I believe you ignored the highlighted quotes from Bob Lutz. A Sigma Cadillac isn't exactly a lightweight is it?

I'm betting the Camaro will NOT be a 3500lb car like some are hoping for.
Old Feb 28, 2006 | 08:23 AM
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Re: Will the Camaro be a pig?

There will definitely be pressure on Camaro to be heavier.
Old Feb 28, 2006 | 09:06 AM
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Re: Will the Camaro be a pig?

I think we'll be a tad under 3,700, whether it be V6 or V8, as the LS engines probably weigh as little as the iron block 3900s. I'd guess 200 lbs more than a 4th gen despite being 6" shorter...keep in mind, the concept is WIDE.
Old Feb 28, 2006 | 09:12 AM
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Re: Will the Camaro be a pig?

3,500 lbs is still the target though....man oh man....I wish them luck.
Old Feb 28, 2006 | 10:05 AM
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Re: Will the Camaro be a pig?

Originally Posted by NikiVee
I believe you ignored the highlighted quotes from Bob Lutz. A Sigma Cadillac isn't exactly a lightweight is it?

I'm betting the Camaro will NOT be a 3500lb car like some are hoping for.
Nope I read that. But don't expect a 4000 lbs Camaro. It will be shorter in length and height than the sedans and will likely not have all the structural reinforcement like the current GTO has.
Old Feb 28, 2006 | 12:06 PM
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Re: Will the Camaro be a pig?

Maybe not 4000lbs, but I wouldn't bet on a 3500lb Camaro. How come the Concept's weight was never revealed? Somewhere I saw or read that it weighed in at around 3800lbs.

Last edited by NikiVee; Feb 28, 2006 at 12:08 PM.
Old Feb 28, 2006 | 12:13 PM
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Re: Will the Camaro be a pig?

Originally Posted by NikiVee
How come the Concept's weight was never revealed?
Probably because the concept didn't contain a lot of production-ready hardware.

I'm not expecting miracles when it comes to production girth, but I wouldn't necessarily equate Holden involvement to being heavy either.
Old Feb 28, 2006 | 12:52 PM
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Re: Will the Camaro be a pig?

Originally Posted by Z284ever
3,500 lbs is still the target though....man oh man....I wish them luck.
Now this is interesting to me. Engineering has a target weight for the Camaro? I don't recall ever hearing about this.

If they could actually pull off 3500lbs, I would be pleasently suprised.
Old Feb 28, 2006 | 01:03 PM
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Re: Will the Camaro be a pig?

The way new models are going I'd be happy with 3500lbs.

The C6 Vette is the only new model that I know of recently that actually went down in weight with its newest generation.
Old Feb 28, 2006 | 01:24 PM
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Re: Will the Camaro be a pig?

Originally Posted by Z28Wilson
Probably because the concept didn't contain a lot of production-ready hardware.
That then begs the question, why were people slamming the weight of the Challenger then? It also contained alot of non-production hardware. Unless your going to claim that the Challenger was production ready or that we know what the Charger and 300C weighs and that the Challenger will be riding on a similiar platform.

Will the Camaro not ride on a similiar platorm to Sigma?

I just don't see how an 08-09 Camaro that needs to adhere to all the new federal regulations, and will be based on a platform being developed by Holden will somehow weight that same as a 4th gen or close to it.
Old Feb 28, 2006 | 01:57 PM
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Re: Will the Camaro be a pig?

Originally Posted by NikiVee
That then begs the question, why were people slamming the weight of the Challenger then? It also contained alot of non-production hardware. Unless your going to claim that the Challenger was production ready or that we know what the Charger and 300C weighs and that the Challenger will be riding on a similiar platform.
Well it has been said that Challenger will be on LX not LY so yeah it will be about the same weight as the 300 and Charger. Also it is quite close to production ready.
Will the Camaro not ride on a similiar platorm to Sigma?
Nearest as I can understand it: Sigma based unibody with VE suspension.
BTW CTS V6 weighs in around 3500 lbs.
I just don't see how an 08-09 Camaro that needs to adhere to all the new federal regulations, and will be based on a platform being developed by Holden will somehow weight that same as a 4th gen or close to it.
Don't forget Holden's VE is a heavy duty platform to last on the roads in Aus and the Middle East. A US sigma based unibody wouldn't have to be so 'offroad ready.'
Old Feb 28, 2006 | 03:51 PM
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Re: Will the Camaro be a pig?

Originally Posted by NikiVee
That then begs the question, why were people slamming the weight of the Challenger then? It also contained alot of non-production hardware. Unless your going to claim that the Challenger was production ready or that we know what the Charger and 300C weighs and that the Challenger will be riding on a similiar platform.

Will the Camaro not ride on a similiar platorm to Sigma?

I just don't see how an 08-09 Camaro that needs to adhere to all the new federal regulations, and will be based on a platform being developed by Holden will somehow weight that same as a 4th gen or close to it.
Actually the Challanger concept has been said to be very, very close to what will be seen on the showroom floor once produced.
Old Feb 28, 2006 | 05:03 PM
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Re: Will the Camaro be a pig?

Originally Posted by RussStang
Now this is interesting to me. Engineering has a target weight for the Camaro? I don't recall ever hearing about this.

If they could actually pull off 3500lbs, I would be pleasently suprised.
Pretty much everything that's ever been put on an engineer's desk to design has had a target weight. Vehicles are certainly no exception.

As to how realistic those targets are, that's another question.



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