Threxx

It sounds like you are getting hung up on the name Taurus and ignoring the fact that this car is much bigger and more luxurious than any past Taurus, thus placing it in direct competition with several other cars of similar specification and similar pricing.

The Taurus being sold now shares literally nothing with the Taurus of yore, and Ford could have just kept calling it the "500" if they didn't find out most people actually bought the Taurus for its name recognition.

And FWIW I think the Hyundai Genesis was a pretty stellar buy at ~33k base price when it first came out a few years ago. It's getting slightly long in the tooth now and its interior looks a little dated, but I'm sure they've got a redesign in the works soon.

guionM

I had my '85 Mustang for 12 years. Never let me down. Sold it at 225K miles.

My first '89 Thunderbird SC. Blew a head gasket at 120K miles, but it was my own fault because I put a smaller pully on the blower and didn't modify the exhaust (later got headers and a y-pipe... no problems afterwards. Sold it at 185K miles.

Reconditioned an '89 SC. Never touched the engine or tranny. Sold it at 185K miles. No problems.

Had various 5.0 Mustangs. Had an alternator go out on one and a master cylinder on another out of 5 cars. None left me stranded.

Meanwhile.....

My 93 Camaro had a power window go out and a fuel guage that left me stranded twice and an alternator go out.

My '97 Camaro left me stranded numerous times. Fuel pump, alternator (twice), clutch (twice), water pump, faulty fuel guage. Also went through 2 drivers side and 1 passenger side power window motors.

Friend of mine had a Hyundai about 2000. They had problems with the alternator, clutch, brake booster, and numerous other gremlins. He was not alone, and Hyundai was known for reliability problems all the way up till the begining of this decade.

Today, Hyundai has a different reputation, and Ford hasn't had a major recall of it's new vehicles in about a decade.

Taking the position you're taking, I would be calling GM a "Domestic ****" and would never give a dime to them again... afterall, not only was I stranded, and had numerous problems with 2 of 3 Camaros, you can honestly say that any car company that can't make something as simple as a power window motor work reliably, then the whole car company has to be a crap bag.... and appanrently, since they went into bankruptcy, that's pretty much the image the public had.

But, fortunately, people aren't as solidly anti-GM and anti-Hyundai to the point where they ignore all the great reports on quality.

If Ford is no where near as bad as you say. Number 1 in quality beating Toyota (till Sync brought the numbers down). Ford has earned whopping amounts of money the past 4 years. Ford ranks high in customer loyalty. have as high of customer loyalty.

It's obvious that you hate Ford, perhaps unreasoably.

But to each their own.

guionM

Taurus was the most popular car in the US all the way up till it stopped production. It was only the last few years it fell out of favor in the retail market.

As for SRT4, bad choice..... it's still a highly respected car.

If you were missing your GM treatment, you could have asked for the lube.

A gearhead wouldn't be in the market for a Genesis or an Equus, so it's pointless to ask one.

Your comparison of asking someone about a Taurus and Hyundai is also asking for a result you aren't going to expect.

Taurus ranked high on quality, and was generally viewed as being better made and more solid than competitors Lumina then Impala, and on par with all Japaneese competitors.

Hyundai ranked about a couple of inches above a Yugo. People bought them because they couldn't afford a real new car, and dumped them as soon as they could. Tauruses were bought by familys at numbers that would boggle the mind by today's numbers.

What went wrong with the Taurus (which is what you're erroniously basing your whole opinion about Taurus on) is the same thing that happened to Impala. Taurus was in front of the crowd when it came out in quality and engineering, but Ford sat on it's hands and ran the car so long without changes that not only did everyone catch up to it, it passed it by.

Apparently.... judging by the number that they sell.

A twin turbocharged, AWD, 365hp, loaded SHO costs $39,200.

The 2011 FWD Buick Lucerne Super with a 290hp V8 cost $44,460
A AWD, 3.6, 300 horse, Buick LaCrosse costs $38,305
A FWD Avalon limited costs $36,400.
Both the V6 Genesis and the Nissan Maxima CV both cost just short of $35K

Does all this show that the Taurus SHO is reasonable and worth the price?


No... I think people just take that for granted at Ford now. BTW, is that your 3rd Hyundai in 3 or 6 years?

Plus, I don't think you'd get a lesser reaction from a cousin or a girl at a bar saying "I drive a Taurus SHO" versus "I drive a Hyundai".... perhaps it's just me, but I'd wager more than a few internal smirks from people from the latter.

But OK.... setting asides borderline psychotic hatreds of Fords and insinuations that some have been lucky enough to not have owned a Hyundai long enough for it to crap out, real world experience simply doesn't support your assertions. Personal hatreds and bias are one thing, but when they are as strong and as vocal as you're putting out, there's gotta be something to back it up or you're laying yourself wide open.

If you have any consumer links, any reliability reports, or anything else to back up your claims of Hyundai making more reliable and high quality cars than Ford or any domestic, then plese link them.

Otherwise, we're just going to have to believe that the reason you bought a Hyundai is because you simply wanted 2008 quality at a 1998 price.

Drive XR7

I would never buy a Hyundai. It's too Korean.

JCU

By whom? Even with its improvements it was still a Neon and along with that came a reputation.

I asked for a company to not only offer a quality product but to stand behind me as a customer. Ford did neither.

And what would they be in the market for? A SHO? A dime a dozen Mustang or Camaro? Look over in the topic regarding the Shelby. Not everyone is agreeing the price is acceptable. Find the discussion about the SRT8 Jeep. Again, some of the same opinions are shared. Different strokes.

Most people have an idea of what cars are worth certain prices and what are not. If I was in the market for a $40K vehicle, it sure as hell wouldn't be a Ford and being fair, it wouldn't be the other two that needed bailout money.

And it was still the car being used as a taxi, fleet car, etc.., Something seen on every corner. Something cheap (not necessarily price wise). The Taurus was the car that little Tommy received once mom and dad decided on stepping up in automobiles.

Even with the advancements and improvements it will still suffer from past reputation. What started to give the manufacturer a bit of respect was the warranty and the fact how the company stood behind when it produced.

I'm not trying to be offensive but you don't have a clue why I dislike Ford. Don't pretend otherwise. My issues go far beyond an individual car.

I'm willing to bet people not being receptive towards a $40K Taurus is not rare.

Read some of the comments: Review: 2010 Ford Taurus SHO | The Truth About Cars

95k on each of the previous two and nothing but usual wear and tear.

Do you buy vehicles for the responses you get from other people? I buy a vehicle for an intended purpose. Praise and recognition (from a cousin?) is not what motivates by buying habits.

I'll do you one better. How about I scan every receipt from every part and repair from the domestic vehicles I've owned? You'll need to have a good attention span though because they are numerous. I'd expect that from a throwaway car but an expensive Ford or a low tech Dodge? Not so much.

Just from reading I can tell you hold blind loyalty to the domestic manufacturers. Myself, I have certain expectations from any vehicle I buy and I also expect to be treated like a valued customer.

Edit: One more older link showing how not everyone seems enthralled with the new SHO. Read the comment section.
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...iac-g8-gt.html

guionM

Ya must be out of the loop. Ask around. SRT4s have quite a reputation on duribility and gaining additional horsepower easily. Chrysler made at least 2 kits to gain significant power.

What was the issue? We have yet to hear what happened.... or what dealer.

Actually, a gearhead would actually be in the market for a Camaro and Mustang. You call them both dime a dozen, yet you hold up the most extreme and expensive versions, completely skipping the versions that gearheads actually are intrested in, the GT and SS.

So GM, Ford, and Chrysler won't be counting you in the...what.... 10,000,000 other people that will buy their cars and trucks this year?

True, Taurus was used as taxis. So are Toyotas. So are Chevrolets. So are Priuses. So were Crown Victorias. There's even a couple of 300Cs running around SF as taxis. Point is that everyone and their brother found their roomy cars used as taxis. Also, fleet sales were not a bad thing till car makers used them to prop up sales and extend the production life of cars they should have restyled. Not sure what you mean by" cheap, not price wise" as if there's a group of fleet buyers going around purposely looking for vehicles that fall apart so it can spend more time getting fixed than on the road.

As for your little Tommy, he's getting a used car from mom & dad that's cheap to insure and is already paid off, meaning it's already 4-6 years old. Hardly something to judge against new cars.


Funny you mentioned "Tommy" in your last reply because there's a section in the movie "Tommy Boy" that hits the whole warranty issue right on the head.

What people wound up buying is the warranty, not the car. And the warranty itself is nothing more than a gimmick and is completely worthless in the real world.

The warranty is 10 years or 100,000 miles.

First, how many people keep their car 10 years. Ummm.......

Second, you're never going to reach the 10 year limit of your warranty even if you keep your car. That's 10K miles per year. That's less than 1000 miles per month. The norm is about 15,000 miles per year.

Third, 100K miles is no big deal. Engines last at least 150K miles, and are tested past 200K. Automakers tend not to make it standard in order to give dealers an opportunity to add things to mark up the price of your vehicle. the more extras you buy, the more they make. When needed, the car maker throws it in at no charge, but unless you fill your oil pan with brake fluid, your engine will easily last past 100, 120, 150K miles.

Fourth, and this is the duzzy, the rest of the warranty is pretty conventional. It was 5 years on rust through now it's 7. It's 3 years on most everything on the car including paint. Don't fret... things like the door handles are covered for 5 years.

The whole things a gimmick.

Everyone can read the warranty for yourselves and decide:
Hyundai Assurance | America's Best Warranty

Well, you aren't telling us anything. It appears that a dealer p*ssed you off, and your damning everything Ford makes or does without anything to back it up, while uptalking Hyundai like it's the best car ever made.... like I said, you're leaving yourself open.


Pretty fair report, so you must be talking about some of the juvies responding.

examples:
George B: Way too big. Way too expensive. Much better cars with better brands are available in the >30k price range. Fail.
reply:
srogers:If you consider it too big, maybe thats why it qualifies as too expensive for you. Typically it costs a premium to move up in size. It would be helpful if you included your examples of better cars for >30k$ of this size.
another:
NulloModo: Interior quality and performance compare well to similarly priced vehicles like the Hyundai Genesis Sedan or the Chrysler 300C. Compared to a BMW 5 series, Lexus GS, or Infiniti M the Taurus gives up some refinement, but also costs at least $10,000 less similarly equipped

The rest are generally the norm when talking about any car, most of the replys are good, a couple bad. Nothing anyone would take seriously.

I bet you're Mr Crispy: "38K for this huge fat pig? Did Ford think this is like the zillionth special edition Mustang, where the name alone would sell the car?I can%u2019t think of any objective or even subjective reason to buy this car, unless you really really like Ford."

Bottom line is that every car is going to have people complaining about expense. There's people on here that feel 30K for a 426hp, IRS, massive tired, big brembo braked, 160mph Camaro SS is too expensive, but there's about 40 or 50,000 more people that say otherwise. SHO sales were on target last year, so I guess for each person who thought an SHO was too expensive, thousands more felt it priced right.


So ya didn't get to try out that 10 year warranty?

I buy what I like. That said, I'm not one for masochistic ridicule. Then again, if I was I'd buy a yellow Beetle. At least they hold up.


Naw... lets keep it simple.... and realistic.

1. How many new Hyundais have you owned?
2. How many new domestics have you owned?
3. What repairs did you need on the new Hyundais?
4. What repairs did you need on the domestics?

If we're talking used, lets compare similar age and mileage.



Blind loyalty?

You ought to scroll back and read some of my posts over the years! I've hammered all of then at one time or another as I felt it was warranted. But I realixe that times change, and dealers are different.

I traded in my crappy '81 Mustang for a brand new '86 Ford Ranger. Horrible dealer experience. Picked up a SS Mustang later that year. Serviced it at 3 different dealers in the San Diego area. The other 2 were far better than the one I bought my Ranger at. No problems with other Ford dealers when I was servicing my T-birds.

Personally, I believe in keeping money with domestic cars. Sure, if they make something crappy, don't buy it. Personally, I'd buy a BMW if they weren't extremely over priced. I'd consider a G35 or 37 coupe, and a Geniesis coupe. But in both instances, they simply are not the better buys next to a Mustang GT or Challenger R/T. Although Camaro SS is also a better car, the best all round deal is the Camaro V6 (I've beat the reasons into the ground, so I won't repeate it now).

But note, I'm not p*ssing all over them the way you are. When I experienced 1 bad dealer, I found half dozen other good ones. Had a crappy '81 Mustang, and had a series of good ones, including an '85 that was still running strong at 225K when I sold it. I had a piece of '97 Camaro that turned out to be a pain in the a**, and now I have a 2002 that I've owned since 2003 and my son just turned over 242,000 miles on the original, untouched engine.

If anything, I'd say you seem to have blind loyalty to Hyundai... true?

falchulk

Sync did not bring anything down. It was MyFord touch. 2 diffrent things.

falchulk

I owned a new neon from 96-2002. Drove it 100+ miles a day. The only thing that brought it down was an Explorer smahing into the back at 40+mph. Not a bad reputation from me. But mine was the more loved 1st gen.

And, yes you do have much deeper issues...you are completelt out of your mind if you think Ford quality is bad and Kia quality is good. As he asked you, provide some backup of this besides your personal experiance.

What do you think you will get for 40k thats so much better?

Melee Penguin

Subaru Get More G's Ad 5 - YouTube

JCU

Yet it is still a Neon and regardless of it's transformation to more of a performance oriented economy car, it will always be a Neon. It is what it is.

I'm guessing you forgot how people were trying to distance themselves from the name "Neon" when the SRT4 was released. Hell, it happened on this board more times then I care to remember.

You mean experience? What someone of your intellect won't understand is that it goes beyond an individual car. But if it matters, I have a stack of receipts (from repairs) as thick as an average telephone book for the 1996 SHO (executive hot rod) I owned. The entire experience made me feel as if I wasn't valued as a customer unlike other companies which tend to show their appreciation. When it comes to buying a vehicle, the only experience which matters is mine. I'm not gullible enough to run back to Ford. Telling me the quality has improved won't cut it. Between the company not giving a damn, the dealerships who couldn't even tell me a correct warranty period and everything in between, it was a circus. Now why would I go back for a second raping?

For a price point around $40k, I'd be inclined to first look at a Charger R/T (Max), Genesis (3.8), STI, etc.., Of course not all of them are in the same class but I'd be more inclined to spend the money on either of them.

Edit: I'm on my third Hyundai and owned many other domestics. Care to guess which ones treated me well and which ones left me stranded?

Derek M

It would appear from the videos the sliding of the SHO was induced by steering and not power oversteer (rear wheels). So can the AWD present a RWD driving perception and experience by allowing enough torque to the rear wheels to perform power oversteer, or is the only way the FWD based architecture of the SHO enabled to slide, performed by yanking on the wheel to create a yaw induced slide?

Z28Wilson

I'll agree with you - you'd be a fool for going back to Ford, if your experiences were that poor. Clearly, buying Hyundais has been the best choice for you. I think the domestics learned that hard lesson long ago, that if they lose a customer once they likely have lost one for life. I don't know that you'd get the same experience from Ford and its dealer network today, but I can't blame you for not wanting to find out. After all, it is YOUR money, and these are very expensive products.

For me, I'm a domestic guy and always will be. When my wife dumped her Saturn for a Malibu a couple months ago we became a 3 car Chevy family. I like them all, from the SS to my S10 with 132k and counting to the Malibu which is a great family car. Our personal experiences are going to shape our opinions of products, that's only natural.

94LightningGal

JCU, one question.................... do you honestly believe that nothing has changed in the last 17 years??

Ford and GM of today, have nothing to do with Ford and GM of 17 years ago. Chrysler is getting there, but their quality was much worse, so it had further to go.

I'm trying to figure out, at what point does a past ill get forgiven?? I was reading on one forum where the Domestic basher was pissed because his 196_? was a major POS. You would think you could get over something that happened 1/2 of a century ago, but I guess not.

Z28Wilson

That's almost besides the point though. I used to think like this, but you have to realize that if a person bought a car from a manufacturer x years ago - it doesn't matter what number 'x' is - and it was a POS, and they moved on to something else that has been good to them and they are still making good products to this day, why would you expect that person to give the other guy a chance again? If you're happy with something you generally stay with it.

I do think it's silly to criticize a Ford product of today because "my 1972 Pinto sucked", I agree completely, but I'd never expect someone who had a crappy Pinto to buy another Ford.

94LightningGal

My point wasn't to say he should spend his money on one, but, as you said, to not berate every product today as if is it as bad as the one he had 17 years ago.

Getting lost buyers back has always been the most difficult. Toyotas and Hondas fall from grace in reliability gave some the imputus to try the Domestics again. While some still cling to them as the bastion of reliability, we all know that the differences between any of the majors is pretty small (basically statistically insignificant).