Yup Guion and DH, I gotta agree with you guys. Don't bring back a name if its not gonna be what people think it should be. I know RP thinks this way. He has stated time and again how he has no desire at all to make a new Camaro that is not really a Camaro and use the name on something that isn't true to what it is or what it's percieved to be.

 

......that I'm a Bluegrass musician? I feel like such a dope....LOL!!

BTW, thanks for the link!

What's really hilarious is that in the late 50's there was a band named Doug Harden & the Desert Suns that had their one big hit "Dig That Ford".....LOL!!!!

 

That's awesome, I had no idea you were into that. Whenever I get a chance to listen to bluegrass, that's some awesome stuff.. sincere, unpretentious, heartfelt. Especially older vintage. There had to be something for us to agree on, after the whole GTO thing which I generally disagree with you on That show "Car Talk" is on every weekend. It varies by location, but usually on NPR on Saturdays, 1 hour long, and they use 1 or 2 of those songs between their segments. if I could find even 10% of those songs on that page I'd be happy. About the show itself; funny car conversation, cool car songs. Well worth checking out!
TTYL, GT

 

Hi THere! I'm close-minded and nit-picky. Who starred in "Dazed and Confused"? And I liked records... when that was all you could get before 8-tracks and cassettes came out!

Just a theoretical question for you regarding your feelings about the new GTO... Forget past names for a second... new models only...

IF there was a 2004 Camaro with LS1 or LS6, M6 or A5, IRS and some other "neat goodies available for $25-35K, and
IF there was a 2004 Trans Am with LS1 or LS6, M6 or A5, IRS and some other "neat goodies available for $25-30K, and
IF there was a RWD 2004 Monte Carlo SS with LS1, M6 or A5, leather, HUD, GPS, and some other goodies for @ $25K, and
IF there was a RWD 2004 Impy SS with an LS1, M6 or A5, leather, HUD, GPS, and some other goodies for @ $25K, and
IF there was a RWD 2004 Grand Prix GT with an LS1, M6 or A5, leather, HUD, GPS, and some other goodies for @ $25K, and
IF there was a RWD 2004 Buick Regal GN with a TT-I6 or V6, M6 or A5, leather, GPS, and some other goodies for @ $30K, and
IF there was a 2004 Olds Cutlass 442 with an LS1, M6 or A5, leather, HUD, GPS, and some other goodies for @ $25K,
etc. etc. ...

What would YOU buy?
How do you think a $35k 2004 GTO from Oz would sell then? 18K of them against +100k units of the others? Profitability? Popularity?

My point here is this - I wholly agree that the GTO will sell out given current conditions and offerings from the General, but if a car sells out because it is the only thing available in that class - it hasn't really EARNED anything. If it sells out amidst worthy competition and peer-offerings, THEN IT HAS DONE SOMETHING SPECIAL. That is what happened with the Z/28, GTO, Trans Ams, Mach 1s, and many other back in the '60s and '70's - they had same-class-competition, and lots of it. The one's that didn't have the goods died quick, like Javelin and Charger. The better cars lasted longer, and the best (Camaro, Firebird, and Mustang) made it all the way until 2002 on their merits, while 'Cudas, 240ZX, 300Z, RX7, Supra, Challengers, Impulse, Torino, Cougar, and oodles of others strayed, varied, and/or died.

Don't y'all get emotional when you hear those names like Trans Am, Z/28, etc.? Do you only see futuristic models ahead? Don't you see any historical relation or value of these cars at all?
I get the feeling guys like this didn't do well in History in school, and don't garner much respect for their own grandparents or senior citizens because they are "old". After all, for every 1 old-dude, there must be 5 young dudes in the world!

In my opinion, naming this new car a GTO has already done more harm than good... it has
1) Created a debate between "old-timers" and the young crowd over what the car should be/used to be.
2) Done a dis-service to the designers of the wonderful Monero by forcing them to re-design it into something they didn't originally want it to be (or it would have looked that way to start with )
3) Drawn attention to GM's need to "RUSH" something into the marketplace - Camaro replacement or not - somebody dropped the ball and this is a band-aid solution.

ALSO in my opinion, the introduction of this CAR into our domestic market could have been brilliantly done if it had been called the Pontiac Monaro, giving...
1) The new car a new chance to make a new reputation all it's own.
2) The designers/builders the satisfaction of seeing their original efforts go global - endorsing their quality "as-is", not "Americanized".
3) GM a chance to tout "a new level of refinement and power for the US buyer" instead of "our rush-job, stop-gap, GTO from somebody else".

Like it or not, naming this car HAS alienated some of the most LOYAL GM SUPPORTERS... was it really worth it to draw a little media attention? As loyal supporters, they deserve to have their thoughts heard and acknowledged more than anybody, but they feel shafted. Anybody heard from GOATCRAZY on this board in a while?

At least Nissan had the intelligence to see that people would want the "old" 300Z back again if they called the new car by that name. Instead, they maintained associativity with the Z-family of cars for recognition, but digressed to the new 350Z name, allowing it to stand or fall on it's own, but not take the 200, 240, and 300Z cars of the past down with it if it flops. NOBLE CONCEPT, EH?

And like others have said recently... beware your beloved Camaro name... it too is now on the auction block at GM. I beleive RP will do everything possible to prevent an injustice in using that name, because he feels that magical "passion" in the name. But if the bean-counters and steering committees and board members WANT to name a hydrogen-fuelled electric hybrid scooter a CAMARO because it is quick, small and sleek, sporty-looking 2-door, economically priced, and "peppy", RP can't stop them alone - he is only 1 guy on a BIG ship. Again, what traits defined a Camaro in the marketplace??? Sounds like a close-enough match to me.

Hypothetical food for hypnothetical thought.
Proud.

 

I see what you are saying, but take a look at your list of potential competitirs... every single one of them are from GM...

In that regard, while I am all for choices, there are virtually NO competitors from outside sources (IE. Ford, Chrysler, etc...) so, why should GM compete with itself when they can sell out their production of GTO's anyway?

(That being said, I am all for seeing some of those cars you proposed... )

 

kizz and DH,
This is SOOO off-topic, but you guys both need to check-out a group named Nickel Creek. They are a young trio (each is @ 20) and bring a new sound and vibrance to bluegrass with old instruments... their music is GREAT!
They are doing to bluegrass like we've been talking about "new flair" in an old car - Like the "retro Mustang" vs "non-retro GTO".

Sorry it's off-topic, I'll say no more!

 

EXACTLY. I wanted to use an all GM lineup.
The question is this...
If given a choice of performance cars from GM, would the buyer go for the GTO the same way as they do now - with NO other choices from GM (Save the Vette, of course.)?

I think lots of guys just see the car, regardless of it's name, and that's OK for them. But don't trod or begrudge on those who feel a passion associated with names.

BTW, there were also some serious in-house competitiors for the T/a and Z/28 through the years too, like the Chevelle 396, Nova SS cars, etc. They may not have been quite as well known, ut there were fast alternatives to the F-bods on the same showroom floor!

 

They're not as noble as you think...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the 240, 260, 280 and 300ZX have to do with engine sizes of 2.4, 2.6, 2.8 and 3.0 litres? Doesn't the 350Z have a 3.5L V6?

Ah, who cares - its ugly!

 

The Bel Air was the top of the line only until 1957. The Impala was the top of the line model from 58 until late 65...then the Caprice was added as the top model.(4 door only in 65)

 

Yes, I think you are correct about the engines, but my point wasn't the peformance level or the engine size, but the NAMING of the car. If Nissan had called it a 300Z or 300ZX, everybody would be thinkg about the old one that was dropped, and expecting it to "come back" in similar form. I think they were wise to link it to the Z-family of cars for history-sake and recognition, but giving it a NEW name to stand or fall on it's own merits.

Just my thoughts.

 

Just remember what they did with "NOVA" in the 90s.