What's an American car?
Multiple random thoughts:
I agree the only conclusion that can be made is the the question is no longer valid. The closest you can get is the related question of the article: what action has the largest net monetary benefit to the USA and US citizens. And, this facet of a purchase is a value that the consumer either does or does not find important. It is not an inherent right or wrong moral decision, but a debatable value. No different than valuing fuel efficiency, tail pipe emissions, or top speed.
Considering it a value and not a right/wrong, I think it is usually hypocritical to criticize others for owning or using lower "US net benefit" products. There are some people that do not like Toyota/Honda and claim it is wrong (implying its a moral) to buy their products. Those same people also have no problem with French tires on their car, German beer, Italian guns, African jewels, Chinese tshirts, Japanese televisions, Korean jeans, a Chinese Walmart toaster, and they lust for certain red cars from Italy which use excessive amounts of Iraqi fuel. Does not the same moral of whats best for US citizens still apply? Those people may claim that it is becasue of the difference in monetary scale, a few dollars to China for a toaster is not the same as $25k for a car. But when you teach your children right and wrong morals, do you tell them there is a difference between a cashier stealing $0.50 from their drawer or a hacker taking $5000 from someone's checking account? Is one act greater than another if the average Joe puts $5 in the salvation army bucket at Christmas and Bill Gates writing a $50,000 check to UNICEF? Unless everything you buy is of high US net benefit, you must consider this parameter of vehicle/company origin a value, not a moral, and respect a differing opinion without constant name calling or derogatory comments.
Regardless, if we Americans are as great as we boast, we should be able to adapt to any condition. Even if we are apparently digging ourselves into a hole by "whoring" our money out to "foreign" companies, we should be able to climb back out on a whim. Is not American ingenuity what we prize most here? In WWII we proudly point out how we ramped up from old technology and low manufacturing capability into a unified butt kicking machine. If our auto industry falls, our economy degrades, and our standard of living does go down, we should be able to finally cinch the belts around our flaccid guts and make a come back to the lean, mean, standard of the world. As much as I do not want to see it, if we fall from grace and stay down, we have no one to blame but ourselves for our new secondary status. The Japanese, Chinese, or whoever worked for and wanted the #1 status deserves to be the new top dog.
Yet another thought, to those that feel it is silly to hold long past actions against German or Japanese car companies, would you buy an Iranian made car tomorrow? Or if a North Korean car company developed a truly low cost, high quality car, would you hesitate to buy it? Not everyone in Iran is a terrorist or hates America, just like not every Japanese person took out several marines in WWII and holds a grudge. Granted it may be small due to corruption, but the common people of Iran would get some benefit from cash infused to their country.
All are interesting discussion topics. It is sad though to see people wanting to avoid this type of discussion because it usually degrades into name calling and personal attacks. Are we now too lazy to even read and understand each others opinions and politely agree to disagree on a public forum? Rather than spend 5 minutes reading 3-4 insightful, thought out paragraphs from one person, we would rather read 5 minutes worth of 1-2 sentence off the hip, knee jerk, and smart-aleck responses from 10 different people. (I admit I am guilty of this myself, I skim long posts for the following smart a$$ comment. There will probably be a cute 1-2 line zinger after this post.) If we are really are getting that lazy, that we always avoid careful thought for quick entertainment, our stupefication is intensifying and no degree of protectionist buying patterns is going to save us from sliding from the world's #1 spot in any arena. So its all a wash.
I agree the only conclusion that can be made is the the question is no longer valid. The closest you can get is the related question of the article: what action has the largest net monetary benefit to the USA and US citizens. And, this facet of a purchase is a value that the consumer either does or does not find important. It is not an inherent right or wrong moral decision, but a debatable value. No different than valuing fuel efficiency, tail pipe emissions, or top speed.
Considering it a value and not a right/wrong, I think it is usually hypocritical to criticize others for owning or using lower "US net benefit" products. There are some people that do not like Toyota/Honda and claim it is wrong (implying its a moral) to buy their products. Those same people also have no problem with French tires on their car, German beer, Italian guns, African jewels, Chinese tshirts, Japanese televisions, Korean jeans, a Chinese Walmart toaster, and they lust for certain red cars from Italy which use excessive amounts of Iraqi fuel. Does not the same moral of whats best for US citizens still apply? Those people may claim that it is becasue of the difference in monetary scale, a few dollars to China for a toaster is not the same as $25k for a car. But when you teach your children right and wrong morals, do you tell them there is a difference between a cashier stealing $0.50 from their drawer or a hacker taking $5000 from someone's checking account? Is one act greater than another if the average Joe puts $5 in the salvation army bucket at Christmas and Bill Gates writing a $50,000 check to UNICEF? Unless everything you buy is of high US net benefit, you must consider this parameter of vehicle/company origin a value, not a moral, and respect a differing opinion without constant name calling or derogatory comments.
Regardless, if we Americans are as great as we boast, we should be able to adapt to any condition. Even if we are apparently digging ourselves into a hole by "whoring" our money out to "foreign" companies, we should be able to climb back out on a whim. Is not American ingenuity what we prize most here? In WWII we proudly point out how we ramped up from old technology and low manufacturing capability into a unified butt kicking machine. If our auto industry falls, our economy degrades, and our standard of living does go down, we should be able to finally cinch the belts around our flaccid guts and make a come back to the lean, mean, standard of the world. As much as I do not want to see it, if we fall from grace and stay down, we have no one to blame but ourselves for our new secondary status. The Japanese, Chinese, or whoever worked for and wanted the #1 status deserves to be the new top dog.
Yet another thought, to those that feel it is silly to hold long past actions against German or Japanese car companies, would you buy an Iranian made car tomorrow? Or if a North Korean car company developed a truly low cost, high quality car, would you hesitate to buy it? Not everyone in Iran is a terrorist or hates America, just like not every Japanese person took out several marines in WWII and holds a grudge. Granted it may be small due to corruption, but the common people of Iran would get some benefit from cash infused to their country.
All are interesting discussion topics. It is sad though to see people wanting to avoid this type of discussion because it usually degrades into name calling and personal attacks. Are we now too lazy to even read and understand each others opinions and politely agree to disagree on a public forum? Rather than spend 5 minutes reading 3-4 insightful, thought out paragraphs from one person, we would rather read 5 minutes worth of 1-2 sentence off the hip, knee jerk, and smart-aleck responses from 10 different people. (I admit I am guilty of this myself, I skim long posts for the following smart a$$ comment. There will probably be a cute 1-2 line zinger after this post.) If we are really are getting that lazy, that we always avoid careful thought for quick entertainment, our stupefication is intensifying and no degree of protectionist buying patterns is going to save us from sliding from the world's #1 spot in any arena. So its all a wash.
Also, I like GM more than Toyota too, but I would not call Japanese cars soul-less. Last time I checked, Honda and Toyota choose to compete in the generally agreed technological pinnacle of 4 wheel racing, F1. I don't see GM, Ford, or Chrysler pouring blood, sweat, and tears into F1. Yes NASCAR has high technology/skill/knowledge that most haters won't recognize, but I also don't think it is to the same extreme level as taken in F1. Has an "American" engine even won the Indy 500 lately, our own "Great American Race"? It seems the Japanese are willing to play with everyone else on the world stage. US auto companies seem to avoid most international competition. Why don't they spend a little less time on NASCAR, and prove their superiority by competing in the Japanese GT championship, or German DTM races? "Foreigners" compete on their home turf, international competition, and US only competition. Why don't the big 3 ever bring their A game to other's home turf more often? Who is truly lacking a competitive spirit and soul? For claiming boring street cars, what about 350Z, Supra, MR2, Celica, Integra, RSX, Eclipse, NSX, S2000, EVO, WRX STI, RX7, RX8, Miata, 3000 GT, need I go on? All cars with as much soul as any "American" enthusiast car.
Its fine to not like Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, etc for any given reason, maybe for no reason at all. But don't blanket all their products as soul-less. Give them credit where credit is due. GM, Ford, and DCX also build thousands of pretty soul-less Cobalts, Focuss, Fusions, Malibus, Calibers, etc. In fact, the big 3 are so good at soul-less that they cultivated the ultimate soul robbing behavior of rampant badge engineering.
Its fine to not like Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, etc for any given reason, maybe for no reason at all. But don't blanket all their products as soul-less. Give them credit where credit is due. GM, Ford, and DCX also build thousands of pretty soul-less Cobalts, Focuss, Fusions, Malibus, Calibers, etc. In fact, the big 3 are so good at soul-less that they cultivated the ultimate soul robbing behavior of rampant badge engineering.
78montecarlo, thanks for having some insight and thinking before you post. Agree and disagree, at least you did not bash like many others do. Finally, someone gets the difference between discussion and dispute.
Soul-less car companies engaging in a soul-less endeavor, and Toyota twice so since they've whored themselves out to the devil's own racing series NASCRAP.
Let’s be real here for a moment, everyone.
I hate to break the news but all companies, car companies included, are “soulless” as are their products. I know we’ve all done it…given our cars names…treated them as if they have a mind and a heart and care as much about us as we do about them but really, only the human need to see “life” in inanimate objects allows us to do that.
To claim some “lack of soul” for Toyota (and pretend some other company has one) is getting a bit ridiculous.
For those of us who love cars, they certainly can evoke emotion in us but that does not mean they have any emotion of their own. GM has certainly produced many memorable cars…cars that cause considerable emotion in people but there are many companies and many, many cars that have and will do that and which don’t wear a GM nameplate.
I hate to break the news but all companies, car companies included, are “soulless” as are their products. I know we’ve all done it…given our cars names…treated them as if they have a mind and a heart and care as much about us as we do about them but really, only the human need to see “life” in inanimate objects allows us to do that.
To claim some “lack of soul” for Toyota (and pretend some other company has one) is getting a bit ridiculous.
For those of us who love cars, they certainly can evoke emotion in us but that does not mean they have any emotion of their own. GM has certainly produced many memorable cars…cars that cause considerable emotion in people but there are many companies and many, many cars that have and will do that and which don’t wear a GM nameplate.
Last edited by Robert_Nashville; Mar 9, 2007 at 08:43 PM.
Let’s be real here for a moment, everyone.
I hate to break the news but all companies, car companies included, are “soulless” as are their products. I know we’ve all done it…given our cars names…treated them as if they have a mind and a heart and care as much about us as we do about them but really, only the human need to see “life” in inanimate objects allows us to do that.
To claim some “lack of soul” for Toyota (and pretend some other company has one) is getting a bit ridiculous.
For those of us who love cars, they certainly can evoke emotion in us but that does not mean they have any emotion of their own. GM has certainly produced many memorable cars…cars that cause considerable emotion in people but there are many companies and many, many cars that have and will do that and which don’t wear a GM nameplate.
I hate to break the news but all companies, car companies included, are “soulless” as are their products. I know we’ve all done it…given our cars names…treated them as if they have a mind and a heart and care as much about us as we do about them but really, only the human need to see “life” in inanimate objects allows us to do that.
To claim some “lack of soul” for Toyota (and pretend some other company has one) is getting a bit ridiculous.
For those of us who love cars, they certainly can evoke emotion in us but that does not mean they have any emotion of their own. GM has certainly produced many memorable cars…cars that cause considerable emotion in people but there are many companies and many, many cars that have and will do that and which don’t wear a GM nameplate.
[QUOTE=Robert_Nashville;4467312]To claim some “lack of soul” for Toyota (and pretend some other company has one) is getting a bit ridiculous.[QUOTE]
Naw, you could argue for Nissan (350Z, SE-R) and Honda (S2000, Civic SI), but Toyota has (celi....supr...well you could say prius, but thats sorta like being a zombie. No soul, just animated)
Naw, you could argue for Nissan (350Z, SE-R) and Honda (S2000, Civic SI), but Toyota has (celi....supr...well you could say prius, but thats sorta like being a zombie. No soul, just animated)
Toyota has had a few interesting sporty/sports cars over time. Not quite as many as other automakers, not all fire breathing monsters, but all were fun to drive in their day and still are today. “Fun to drive”, I think makes them special enough and shows the people at Toyota are not just automatons. For example, consider the period from 1990 -1999 and some fun CARS from some manufacturers:
Toyota had:
Supra
Celica
MR2 -> MR2 Spyder
Paseo
Ford had:
Mustang
Probe
Thunderbird
Contour SVT
Nissan had:
300ZX
240SX
NX -> 200SX
Sentra SE-R
Somewhat even model count (forgive me if I forgot 1-2).
I however will totally agree that as of late, Toyota really has dropped the ball on offering enthusiast cars. But so have other makers at times, for whatever reason. What cars did Mopar fans have to choose from between 1997 and 2003? Expensive Viper, expensive Prowler, Neon ACR or RT, and Avenger. Pretty much only two options, unless you had a lot of money. Likewise, Toyota now only has Scion Tc and Solara coupe.
Despite their recent lapse, they HAVE made great enthusiast cars in the past. Can you hold temporary underperformance against a manufacturer despite opposing historical evidence? What about GM offering so many poor quality cars during the 80’s/90’s, is that enough to write GM engineers off as lazy forevermore? Again, I like GM too, but give credit where its due. Toyota’s people are not soul-less, I am sure there are PLENTY of engineers at TRD just itching for someone to let them build a kick butt sports car.
Toyota had:
Supra
Celica
MR2 -> MR2 Spyder
Paseo
Ford had:
Mustang
Probe
Thunderbird
Contour SVT
Nissan had:
300ZX
240SX
NX -> 200SX
Sentra SE-R
Somewhat even model count (forgive me if I forgot 1-2).
I however will totally agree that as of late, Toyota really has dropped the ball on offering enthusiast cars. But so have other makers at times, for whatever reason. What cars did Mopar fans have to choose from between 1997 and 2003? Expensive Viper, expensive Prowler, Neon ACR or RT, and Avenger. Pretty much only two options, unless you had a lot of money. Likewise, Toyota now only has Scion Tc and Solara coupe.
Despite their recent lapse, they HAVE made great enthusiast cars in the past. Can you hold temporary underperformance against a manufacturer despite opposing historical evidence? What about GM offering so many poor quality cars during the 80’s/90’s, is that enough to write GM engineers off as lazy forevermore? Again, I like GM too, but give credit where its due. Toyota’s people are not soul-less, I am sure there are PLENTY of engineers at TRD just itching for someone to let them build a kick butt sports car.
Some more Fords: '80's up..
SVO Mustang
T-Bird Turbo Coupe
T-Bird Super-Coupe
SHO Taurus V6
SHO Taurus V8
(Probe=Mazda)
SVO Lightning
SVT Lightning
Mustang Cobra's 5.8L and 4.6L
The reason people get bent out of shape over the Auto Industry is, it drives our economy right now. As they eliminate jobs and significantly lower wages & benefits, far less people can afford goods and mortgages, not to mention accumulates debt...and our economy bogs...kinda like right now.
SVO Mustang
T-Bird Turbo Coupe
T-Bird Super-Coupe
SHO Taurus V6
SHO Taurus V8
(Probe=Mazda)
SVO Lightning
SVT Lightning
Mustang Cobra's 5.8L and 4.6L
The reason people get bent out of shape over the Auto Industry is, it drives our economy right now. As they eliminate jobs and significantly lower wages & benefits, far less people can afford goods and mortgages, not to mention accumulates debt...and our economy bogs...kinda like right now.
Last edited by 90rocz; Mar 12, 2007 at 10:00 AM.
The reason people get bent out of shape over the Auto Industry is, it drives our economy right now. As they eliminate jobs and significantly lower wages & benefits, far less people can afford goods and mortgages, not to mention accumulates debt...and our economy bogs...kinda like right now.
WSJ: Protectionists Never Learn
In an opinion piece in today's Wall Street Journal, Russell Roberts professor of economics at George Mason University describes how our foreign trade partners have become the scapegoats for lawmakers looking to find a solution to job losses in America. He recalls the backlash on Japan in the late 1980s: "Back then, every politician in the mood for pandering to economic ignorance could scare a bunch of folks with worries about how the Japanese were stealing our jobs. How our trade deficit with Japan was going to destroy the American economy. How the Japanese economy was soon going to pass America's. How the Japanese auto industry was part of a sinister strategy to destroy our core competencies." But the "doom-and-gloomers" didn't succeed. "They told us that Japan was going to destroy our economy. They told us we needed a plan to cope with brilliant Japanese economic strategies. But then the Japanese economy hiccupped and played Rip Van Winkle for a decade, while America kept growing." According to Roberts, "The real reason Japan isn't scary is because it wasn't and isn't a threat to our standard of living. Trade makes both parties better off, remember?... Our economy keeps growing. We have more jobs than ever before. And contrary to popular belief, the American standard of living and the American middle class are thriving." Today, China has become the scapegoat: "We're told that China cheats on its currency, stealing America's manufacturing capacity and destroying American jobs." But "the next time you find yourself losing sleep over China, remember that you were worried about Japan and Mexico and everything turned out OK. Then ask yourself if America would be a richer country if China cut itself off from the rest of the world."
Protectionists Never Learn
By RUSSELL ROBERTS - March 12, 2007; Page A15
By RUSSELL ROBERTS - March 12, 2007; Page A15
Originally Posted by Wall Street Journal
I'm thinking of a country. America's trade deficit with this country just reached an all-time high. This country holds more U.S. Treasuries than any other foreign country. It's one of the world's largest economies. And the name of that country is?
Japan.
Japan? Yes. Remember when Japan was a big threat to the American economy? You have to go back to the late 1980s. Back then, every politician in the mood for pandering to economic ignorance could scare a bunch of folks with worries about how the Japanese were stealing our jobs. How our trade deficit with Japan was going to destroy the American economy. How the Japanese economy was soon going to pass America's. How the Japanese auto industry was part of a sinister strategy to destroy our core competencies.
You'd think Japan would still make good political fodder. The story of the baseball off-season is the Red Sox spending $100 million to bring Daisuke Matsuzaka from Japan to the United States. Dice-K, as he's known, is the ultimate import. He takes away a job from an American pitcher. And the Japanese baseball teams discriminate against American players with strict quotas. But even though America's trade deficit with Japan just hit that all-time high, no one uses Dice-K as a symbol of unfair Japanese trade policy.
Why not? Instead, it's China all the time. We're told that China cheats on its currency, stealing America's manufacturing capacity and destroying American jobs. China's holdings of U.S Treasuries threaten our sovereignty, according to Hillary Clinton, even though Japanese holdings are almost twice as big.
Why isn't Japan just as scary as China? One answer is that Matsuzaka smiles too much. He's only scary if you're 60 feet 6 inches away from him, trying to hit his famous gyroball with a wooden stick in your hand. And unlike other imports, it's easy to see how he doesn't just help his relatives in Japan with all that money he's getting from the Red Sox. He helps the Red Sox. Trade makes both parties to the trade better off.
But still. Why isn't Japan scary?
One answer is that the doom-and-gloomers already tried, but nothing happened. They told us that Japan was going to destroy our economy. They told us we needed a plan to cope with brilliant Japanese economic strategies. But then the Japanese economy hiccupped and played Rip Van Winkle for a decade, while America kept growing.
The real reason Japan isn't scary is because it wasn't and isn't a threat to our standard of living. Trade makes both parties better off, remember? But when Japan slumps and the U.S. surges, it's too hard to fool people with bad economics.
So when the sky didn't fall, a new candidate had to be found. Mexico and Nafta fit the bill. Not Canada, even though Canada was part of Nafta. Evidently, politicians and some voters find Mexicans more scary than Canadians. So it was Mexico. When that great "sucking sound" was never heard, a new sinister foreign nation had to be found. And so it's the turn of the Chinese.
Yes, China holds a lot of our bonds. But Japan holds more. Yes, we run a big trade deficit with China. But that lets us buy lots of inexpensive stuff instead of having to make it for ourselves. Yes, there are more than a billion Chinese. I guess that means they can take all of our jobs four times! But our economy keeps growing. We have more jobs than ever before. And contrary to popular belief, the American standard of living and the American middle class are thriving.
We were told that at a minimum China (and India with its own billion-strong population) would take all our high-tech jobs. But the high-tech sector bounced back from its downturn (a downturn that had nothing to do with outsourcing) and is growing again, partly because we can get some of the simplest database and programming tasks done so cheaply by Indians and Chinese.
So why can politicians still make China scary? Why didn't Americans learn from the previous sky-is-falling episodes? The simple answer is that if you don't understand economics, you might be convinced by a politician who says that trade with China is bad for America.
The next time you find yourself losing sleep over China, remember that you were worried about Japan and Mexico and everything turned out OK. Then ask yourself if America would be a richer country if China cut itself off from the rest of the world.
Mr. Roberts is professor of economics at George Mason University and a research fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institution.
Japan.
Japan? Yes. Remember when Japan was a big threat to the American economy? You have to go back to the late 1980s. Back then, every politician in the mood for pandering to economic ignorance could scare a bunch of folks with worries about how the Japanese were stealing our jobs. How our trade deficit with Japan was going to destroy the American economy. How the Japanese economy was soon going to pass America's. How the Japanese auto industry was part of a sinister strategy to destroy our core competencies.
You'd think Japan would still make good political fodder. The story of the baseball off-season is the Red Sox spending $100 million to bring Daisuke Matsuzaka from Japan to the United States. Dice-K, as he's known, is the ultimate import. He takes away a job from an American pitcher. And the Japanese baseball teams discriminate against American players with strict quotas. But even though America's trade deficit with Japan just hit that all-time high, no one uses Dice-K as a symbol of unfair Japanese trade policy.
Why not? Instead, it's China all the time. We're told that China cheats on its currency, stealing America's manufacturing capacity and destroying American jobs. China's holdings of U.S Treasuries threaten our sovereignty, according to Hillary Clinton, even though Japanese holdings are almost twice as big.
Why isn't Japan just as scary as China? One answer is that Matsuzaka smiles too much. He's only scary if you're 60 feet 6 inches away from him, trying to hit his famous gyroball with a wooden stick in your hand. And unlike other imports, it's easy to see how he doesn't just help his relatives in Japan with all that money he's getting from the Red Sox. He helps the Red Sox. Trade makes both parties to the trade better off.
But still. Why isn't Japan scary?
One answer is that the doom-and-gloomers already tried, but nothing happened. They told us that Japan was going to destroy our economy. They told us we needed a plan to cope with brilliant Japanese economic strategies. But then the Japanese economy hiccupped and played Rip Van Winkle for a decade, while America kept growing.
The real reason Japan isn't scary is because it wasn't and isn't a threat to our standard of living. Trade makes both parties better off, remember? But when Japan slumps and the U.S. surges, it's too hard to fool people with bad economics.
So when the sky didn't fall, a new candidate had to be found. Mexico and Nafta fit the bill. Not Canada, even though Canada was part of Nafta. Evidently, politicians and some voters find Mexicans more scary than Canadians. So it was Mexico. When that great "sucking sound" was never heard, a new sinister foreign nation had to be found. And so it's the turn of the Chinese.
Yes, China holds a lot of our bonds. But Japan holds more. Yes, we run a big trade deficit with China. But that lets us buy lots of inexpensive stuff instead of having to make it for ourselves. Yes, there are more than a billion Chinese. I guess that means they can take all of our jobs four times! But our economy keeps growing. We have more jobs than ever before. And contrary to popular belief, the American standard of living and the American middle class are thriving.
We were told that at a minimum China (and India with its own billion-strong population) would take all our high-tech jobs. But the high-tech sector bounced back from its downturn (a downturn that had nothing to do with outsourcing) and is growing again, partly because we can get some of the simplest database and programming tasks done so cheaply by Indians and Chinese.
So why can politicians still make China scary? Why didn't Americans learn from the previous sky-is-falling episodes? The simple answer is that if you don't understand economics, you might be convinced by a politician who says that trade with China is bad for America.
The next time you find yourself losing sleep over China, remember that you were worried about Japan and Mexico and everything turned out OK. Then ask yourself if America would be a richer country if China cut itself off from the rest of the world.
Mr. Roberts is professor of economics at George Mason University and a research fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institution.
Nice editorial, but his opinion varies from mine, even though he writes for the ""Wall Street Journal""...
Some food for thought...
If many can barely afford essentials, where do they get the money to sustain economic growth??
And our current, what, 4.5%, should be considered more like 6.0% truthfully, but thanks to Bush's Labor dept. they'll continue to gather data in a way that will keep from embarassing him.(If you're not eligible for benefits, you fall off the grid.)
Some food for thought...
Bushonomics: 39 million locked in povertyAuthor
Tim Wheeler and Art Perlo
Date Created
19 Oct 2004
More details...
Date Edited
19 Oct 2004 10:07:07 AM
One in four working families in the U.S. “earn wages so low they have difficulty surviving financially,” charged a report released Oct. 12 by three nonpartisan foundations.
The report, titled “Working Hard, Falling Short,” found that 9.2 million U.S. families with 39 million members, including 20 million children, are locked in the ranks of the “working poor,” toiling at minimum wage jobs without benefits and with little hope of rising from poverty.
Larry Matheney, secretary-treasurer of the West Virginia AFL-CIO, said the report describes the plight of thousands in his state where the Labor Department reported in August that 44,000 West Virginians are unemployed and 10,000 have exhausted their jobless pay without finding a new job.
Thousands of the newly created jobs in the state, he said, pay less than the $8.84 hourly wage needed to cover the bare necessities for a family of four. The federal minimum wage is only $5.15 an hour. “The jobs in the expanding industries pay 34 percent less than the jobs that have been eliminated,” Matheney said. “That works out to be $12,000 less in yearly income. It’s absolutely terrible.”
George W. Bush, he said, “talks about the ‘new economy.’ He promised job training but then he tried to cut $1 billion from federal job training programs,” including $23 million in federal job training programs in West Virginia. “Not only has he taken away jobs, he’s taken away the hope of finding new jobs.”
Matheney branded as a “new low” leaflets linked to the Bush-Cheney campaign falsely claiming that Kerry will “ban the Bible.” He praised Kerry’s vow to close tax loopholes that reward corporate export of jobs and his support for “clean coal technology.” He added, “Beginning today, we are urging voters to vote early. We’re working hard to make sure that no voter is left behind and every vote is counted. We believe John Kerry will win in West Virginia.”
The 36-page report was prepared by the Working Poor Families Project and sponsored by the Annie E. Casey, Ford, and Rockefeller foundations. It calls for increases in the federal and state minimum wage, adding, “Working families are insufficiently served by federal and state policies in such areas as education, training, health care, and tax and wage policies.”
The report debunks stereotypes, pointing out that 71 percent of the poor are employed but simply do not earn enough to get by. More than one-fourth of all families are “low-income,” defined as a family of four that earned $36,488 in 2002, far below the median income of $62,732 for a family of four. They are disproportionately African American and Latino.
Brandon Roberts, one of the authors, called attention to the plight of poor children. “Just the basic necessities, clothing, shelter, food, consumes all these families’ disposable income. They are not sitting around the dining table discussing the funds they are setting aside for their children’s college education.”
He added, “We believe this report is objective and not driven by any partisan political agenda. Right now is the perfect time to consider and debate these issues.”
The Bureau of Labor Statistics employment report released Oct. 8 contained the final scorecard for the 2004 election season. In the presidential debate that evening, Bush boasted that 96,000 jobs were gained in September. Kerry countered that Bush is the first president since Herbert Hoover to end his first term with a net loss of jobs.
The Economic Policy Institute (EPI) points out that “96,000 is below the 135,000 to 150,000 jobs needed per month to absorb the growing population and keep unemployment steady.”
The official September unemployment rate, 5.4 percent, is down slightly only because more working-age people have given up looking for nonexistent jobs. This “missing labor force” has increased by more than a half million people in the last year. Lee Price, the EPI’s research director, told an Oct. 12 press conference that, factoring in the missing labor force, the real unemployment rate is 7.2 percent.
And the job picture for teenagers and African American men is especially bad — studies have shown that only about one out of every two adult Black men in New York City has a job.
This is the first time in over 70 years that employment failed to regain its pre-recession level after 42 months. Since January, over 2.5 million people have exhausted their six-month unemployment benefits without finding a new job. But the Bush administration allowed extended benefits to expire last December, leaving long-term jobless out of luck.
The administration claimed its trillions in tax cuts for the rich would generate 5.5 million jobs. So far, only 1.7 million have been created, 2.9 million short. EPI’s Lawrence Mishel notes that the fastest-growing industries pay 40 percent less than the jobs in industries that are shrinking as a share of the total job market.
These new low-wage, no-benefit jobs explain the surge in the working poor spotlighted in the “Working Hard, Falling Short” report. The bad news in these two reports could mean bad news for Bush Nov. 2.
Tim Wheeler and Art Perlo
Date Created
19 Oct 2004
More details...
Date Edited
19 Oct 2004 10:07:07 AM
One in four working families in the U.S. “earn wages so low they have difficulty surviving financially,” charged a report released Oct. 12 by three nonpartisan foundations.
The report, titled “Working Hard, Falling Short,” found that 9.2 million U.S. families with 39 million members, including 20 million children, are locked in the ranks of the “working poor,” toiling at minimum wage jobs without benefits and with little hope of rising from poverty.
Larry Matheney, secretary-treasurer of the West Virginia AFL-CIO, said the report describes the plight of thousands in his state where the Labor Department reported in August that 44,000 West Virginians are unemployed and 10,000 have exhausted their jobless pay without finding a new job.
Thousands of the newly created jobs in the state, he said, pay less than the $8.84 hourly wage needed to cover the bare necessities for a family of four. The federal minimum wage is only $5.15 an hour. “The jobs in the expanding industries pay 34 percent less than the jobs that have been eliminated,” Matheney said. “That works out to be $12,000 less in yearly income. It’s absolutely terrible.”
George W. Bush, he said, “talks about the ‘new economy.’ He promised job training but then he tried to cut $1 billion from federal job training programs,” including $23 million in federal job training programs in West Virginia. “Not only has he taken away jobs, he’s taken away the hope of finding new jobs.”
Matheney branded as a “new low” leaflets linked to the Bush-Cheney campaign falsely claiming that Kerry will “ban the Bible.” He praised Kerry’s vow to close tax loopholes that reward corporate export of jobs and his support for “clean coal technology.” He added, “Beginning today, we are urging voters to vote early. We’re working hard to make sure that no voter is left behind and every vote is counted. We believe John Kerry will win in West Virginia.”
The 36-page report was prepared by the Working Poor Families Project and sponsored by the Annie E. Casey, Ford, and Rockefeller foundations. It calls for increases in the federal and state minimum wage, adding, “Working families are insufficiently served by federal and state policies in such areas as education, training, health care, and tax and wage policies.”
The report debunks stereotypes, pointing out that 71 percent of the poor are employed but simply do not earn enough to get by. More than one-fourth of all families are “low-income,” defined as a family of four that earned $36,488 in 2002, far below the median income of $62,732 for a family of four. They are disproportionately African American and Latino.
Brandon Roberts, one of the authors, called attention to the plight of poor children. “Just the basic necessities, clothing, shelter, food, consumes all these families’ disposable income. They are not sitting around the dining table discussing the funds they are setting aside for their children’s college education.”
He added, “We believe this report is objective and not driven by any partisan political agenda. Right now is the perfect time to consider and debate these issues.”
The Bureau of Labor Statistics employment report released Oct. 8 contained the final scorecard for the 2004 election season. In the presidential debate that evening, Bush boasted that 96,000 jobs were gained in September. Kerry countered that Bush is the first president since Herbert Hoover to end his first term with a net loss of jobs.
The Economic Policy Institute (EPI) points out that “96,000 is below the 135,000 to 150,000 jobs needed per month to absorb the growing population and keep unemployment steady.”
The official September unemployment rate, 5.4 percent, is down slightly only because more working-age people have given up looking for nonexistent jobs. This “missing labor force” has increased by more than a half million people in the last year. Lee Price, the EPI’s research director, told an Oct. 12 press conference that, factoring in the missing labor force, the real unemployment rate is 7.2 percent.
And the job picture for teenagers and African American men is especially bad — studies have shown that only about one out of every two adult Black men in New York City has a job.
This is the first time in over 70 years that employment failed to regain its pre-recession level after 42 months. Since January, over 2.5 million people have exhausted their six-month unemployment benefits without finding a new job. But the Bush administration allowed extended benefits to expire last December, leaving long-term jobless out of luck.
The administration claimed its trillions in tax cuts for the rich would generate 5.5 million jobs. So far, only 1.7 million have been created, 2.9 million short. EPI’s Lawrence Mishel notes that the fastest-growing industries pay 40 percent less than the jobs in industries that are shrinking as a share of the total job market.
These new low-wage, no-benefit jobs explain the surge in the working poor spotlighted in the “Working Hard, Falling Short” report. The bad news in these two reports could mean bad news for Bush Nov. 2.
And our current, what, 4.5%, should be considered more like 6.0% truthfully, but thanks to Bush's Labor dept. they'll continue to gather data in a way that will keep from embarassing him.(If you're not eligible for benefits, you fall off the grid.)
Last edited by 90rocz; Mar 12, 2007 at 11:18 PM.
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AMERICA'S AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY IS THE ENGINE THAT DRIVES THE ECONOMY.
The automobile industry is one of the largest industries in the United States. New vehicle production, sales and other jobs related to the use of autos are responsible for 1 out of every 10 jobs in the U.S., according to a 2003 report on the "Contribution of the Automotive Industry to the U.S. Economy" prepared by the University of Michigan and the Center for Automotive Research (CAR).
No other single industry supports so much manufacturing or generates more retail business and employment. America's automakers are among the largest purchasers of aluminum, copper, iron, lead, plastics, rubber, textiles, vinyl, steel and computer chips.
The impact of the automotive industry on the U.S. Economy:
Employment: America's automobile industry is one of the largest industries in the country. When jobs dependent on the industry are included, the auto industry is responsible for 13.3 million jobs nationwide.
Compensation: The contribution of automotive manufacturing to compensation in the private sector is estimated at $335 billion, or over 6% of U.S. private sector compensation.
Job Creation: For every worker directly employed by an automaker, over 10 spin-off jobs are created. America's automakers are among the largest purchasers of aluminum, copper, iron, lead, plastics, rubber, textiles, vinyl, steel and computer chips.
GDP: Almost 4% of America's total gross domestic product is generated by the sale and production of new light vehicles.
Output: The U.S. automotive industry produces a higher level of output than any other single industry. When measured in constant 2000 dollars, automotive economic output increased by 73% during 1990-2003.
R&D: The auto industry invested $15.2 billion in research and development in 2002, higher than any other manufacturing industry.
Exports: Automotive exports rose from $33.4 billion in 1988 to almost $81 billion in 2003, an increase of 143%.
This information originates from the study, "Contribution of The Automotive Industry to the U.S. Economy" that was prepared by the University of Michigan and the Center for Automotive Research (CAR). The study was issued in Fall 2003.
The automobile industry is one of the largest industries in the United States. New vehicle production, sales and other jobs related to the use of autos are responsible for 1 out of every 10 jobs in the U.S., according to a 2003 report on the "Contribution of the Automotive Industry to the U.S. Economy" prepared by the University of Michigan and the Center for Automotive Research (CAR).
No other single industry supports so much manufacturing or generates more retail business and employment. America's automakers are among the largest purchasers of aluminum, copper, iron, lead, plastics, rubber, textiles, vinyl, steel and computer chips.
The impact of the automotive industry on the U.S. Economy:
Employment: America's automobile industry is one of the largest industries in the country. When jobs dependent on the industry are included, the auto industry is responsible for 13.3 million jobs nationwide.
Compensation: The contribution of automotive manufacturing to compensation in the private sector is estimated at $335 billion, or over 6% of U.S. private sector compensation.
Job Creation: For every worker directly employed by an automaker, over 10 spin-off jobs are created. America's automakers are among the largest purchasers of aluminum, copper, iron, lead, plastics, rubber, textiles, vinyl, steel and computer chips.
GDP: Almost 4% of America's total gross domestic product is generated by the sale and production of new light vehicles.
Output: The U.S. automotive industry produces a higher level of output than any other single industry. When measured in constant 2000 dollars, automotive economic output increased by 73% during 1990-2003.
R&D: The auto industry invested $15.2 billion in research and development in 2002, higher than any other manufacturing industry.
Exports: Automotive exports rose from $33.4 billion in 1988 to almost $81 billion in 2003, an increase of 143%.
This information originates from the study, "Contribution of The Automotive Industry to the U.S. Economy" that was prepared by the University of Michigan and the Center for Automotive Research (CAR). The study was issued in Fall 2003.
Last edited by 90rocz; Mar 13, 2007 at 12:10 AM.


