It would be nice if GM could enforce a "cap" on the amount of gouging that dealers could place on a car...

 

The GTO and a full-book SS will be about the same price. I would think you might be able to "cheap out" with a stripped Z28 in the 5th gens in the mid-20's, but if you want the top of the line, $33,000-$35,000 will end up being the norm.

Mine stickered at about $32,000 in 2001, inflation will drive that price up.

 

Dealer wants $39,995 for the one here. A $5000 dealer markup plus they had the nerve to add a $99 pinstripe "package" and $300 for wheel locks. On top of the $1000 gas guzzler tax I can see why its still sitting on the lot after almost a month.I think its a very nice car, but not at that price.

 

Question was what happens if GTO is a flop.

GTO got here over the strenous objections of alot of people, the same ones who succeeded in turning GM-North America into a FWD car company. There was another group that objected because they were so starved that (like many people on this board) they felt that any penny spent certifying a car from elsewhere took money from their project.... never mind that their projects weren't funded inthe 1st place, and the money used was simply a drip next to the Hundreds of Millions or even a couple of Billion needed to fund their project.

Say the GTO flops. That means alot of people will have mud on their face, and another crowd will be able to start up with the "I-told-you-sos".

GM is moving ahead very very catiuously on RWD. The 1st ones (outside of Cadillac) will be the big sedans. Those are pretty much at the point of no return right now (GM has nothing else to replace Bonneville & Park Avenue with), but it isn't too late to cancel sport coupes. Even though Chrysler has one ready to go, it now seems like it won't be produced because "there's no market for them" (exact quote from them).

If GTO fails, it will back up Chrysler's assumption and will validate that the coupe market is all but dead. But at a modest 18,000 per year, and a 4 month list (I discovered this myself), no human running on all cylinders is going to accuse the 2004 GTO of being a failure.

As far as dealer gouging, the cars will sit on the lot till prices come to a point where people will start buying them. Dealers are attempting to gouge people on them, but I don't believe it will last. It's the emotional people willing to pay inflated prices on cars because they MUST have them.

GTO isn't a car that appeals to impulse or the "hot heads". It's more of a cerebrial car in that it's styling isn't the number one selling point. All it's goods are under the skin. It's the type of car that will appeal to the same people who bought Thunderbird SCs, Buick Regal GNXs, & Mustang SVOs in their day, despite the fact there were cheaper & flashier ways of getting performance. Of no coincidence, those cars are also more valuable (and historical) today than their cheaper & more popular versions).

As for the GTO faithful, I'd say only half of them at best are worth listening to. The ones who recognize this is the quickest & fastest production GTO ever made in a really good package, but simply want more oomph in the looks apartment are the ones worth listening to. I love the new GTO, but I'm a guy who loves "Sleepers", so I'll freely admit my taste aren't everyones (how can you put a price on the shock of beating someone in a very fast looking car while driving a good looking plain looking car..... priceless! )

The other group that sees the new GTO as doing no right should be completely ignored. If you can't admit what's right, you forfeit your credibility to pronounce what's wrong.

 

I'm real curious to see what new Mustang sales do to the GTO. Me thinks it might get ugly for the GTO

 

Ford's going to sell 170,000 Mustangs (conservative number by Ford's own estimates). Pontiac is rationed at 18,000 GTOs. The idea of one affecting the other in sales isn't realistic by any measure.

Mustang is a budget performance car that can be bought in a stripped version, while GTO is taking the place of the Grand Prix GTP as Pontiac's halo car and comes equipted to the teeth with no options (save the body color and a manual tranny).

An apples & oranges comparison.

If GTO was a full line volume car like the Mustang, or if we are talking about comparing the Mustang Cobra to the GTO, then you'll be on to something.

 

I think you are dead wrong. Take the people who bought one already. I'll bet some of them would have opted for the new Mustang. It took away Camaro sales, why wouldn't it take away GTO sales. They are both 2 door sports cars. If the GTO struggles at all this year, the mustang will make it struggle more next year, but I think its crazy to think there is no competition between the 2. A couple more inches of legroom in the back seat does not put the GTO in a different class.

 

the car cost too much! it'a $25'000 car with leather going for like $35,000!! if it was AWD i would pay that much but i would rther have a 2002 drop top ss over a GTO any day! and spent $20,000!!

 

So you are saying that the people who just spent $32,000 (and up to $38,000 with some of the scalping going on) would have opted for a Mustang GT which can be had for $23,000 (and less according to some) or a Mach 1 that isn't sold for over 30 grand, even out here in California?

I'm considering both, but given a choice between a fairly unique car (GTO) and a car that you will no doubt see on every corner 6 months after it's introduced (Mustang), I most certainly wouldn't go for any Mustang that wasn't a special or limited edition, or a steal like the old LX Mustangs were.

You can easily convince me that GTO snagged some potential Cobra buyers or vice versa (even this group is different from other Mustang buyers... older Ford fanatics into machinery), and I think it's safe to say GTO also is taking GTP Grand Prix Coupe buyers.

But I gotta go a different way on the idea Mustang buyers as a group & GTO buyers as a group being the same.

 

The GTO would be a $hitty "family" car considering it does not have trunk space. I know GM compromised to get the car over here in the U.S, but I personally think it was a big mistake not having trunk space on people who are considering this car for the person who has a family and wants performance.. They shot themselves in the foot in my opinion.. I was very interested in the GTO, but when I saw one in person, I just could not get over the lack of styling outside (inside is sweet) and the trunk debacle. Looking at the 03-4 Cobra now. It might have a crampt back seat, but at least it has a trunk

 

Edmunds.com says the GTO has more cargo space than the Mustang. Plus a back seat made for Adults.

 

Edmunds contradicts everyone else then.. The GTO has 7 cubic ft. Cobra has 10.7 cubic feet for the coupe (7.7 for the vert.). but is does have less rear seat leg room. Also the GTO's 7 cubic ft is a little misleading considering how much of it is actually useable.

The Cobra also is not targeted at "family" car minded people with performance. The GTO does a pretty poor job at this market in my opinion.. But like mentioned earlier, they only need to sell 18,000 of them. it should not be that hard to do.. I do nto ever see the GTo in it's current form to pull off much more sales than that though.

 

That makes more sense. I don't think reviewers would be bitching about the lack of trunk space if it wasn't true. I mean it's just not something worth making up.

Going back to whether the stang will sink the GTO, I think we got confused about current vs '05 model. I think the '04 GT does not compete with the GTO. It's slower and the old chassis has too many compromises, overall an inferior car. The '04 Cobra does compete, but it's limited too and almost as expensive.

The '05 GT, however, looks to be able to beat the GTO in any way you care to measure it. Price, looks, performance, utility(trunk), interior(probably equal).

I'm sorry, but if I went to a Pontiac dealership and Ford dealership on the same day looking to buy a performance coupe that's easy to live with, I'd be driving out with a new GT and have a faster, better looking, more usable car plus 10 grand less on the loan.

 

No problem.

Directly from the Pontiac website...



Directly from the Ford website...


Mustang coupe 10.9 cubic feet, GTO 7 cubic feet.

S.

 

Yes, the same way people are opting for the CTSV over BMW, Mercedes and Jags, and a loaded GT or special edition stang will cost alot more than $23k. I was thinking about getting a GTO a year ago but would have opted for the Cobra over it for the same price, now you have an all new Mustang that is getting the hell praised out of it by just about everyone, projected sales figures in line with 1960's mustang sales that will problably have as much HP as the GTO for a cheaper price, not to mention a newly designed in this century car over a now aging design. The GTO will sell to GM loyalists. The car just screams 1990's. Well I just named a ton of key reasons why to buy the mustang over the GTO, lets hear the reasons to buy a GTO over the Mustang and why it couldn't impact GTO sales.